Suddenly on the other side...and it aint pretty.
POSTED BY: Hero
UPDATED: Monday, May 20, 2024 22:44
VIEWED: 3275
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I'm a public employee, an appointee, not a union person. I voted Republican and believe in curtailing public unions and ending collective bargaining. So that put me squarely on the "right" side of this issue.
Here in Ohio we have our versions of the 'Screw the Unions Act' in the form of Senate Bill 5. Unions hate it, local and state budget hawks like me love it...except this morning they amended it. The new amendment limits all public employees to 10 sick days per year (we currently get 4.6 hours per cycle...which comes our to 15 days). We will now be required to kick in 20% towards our health care (currently 0% and we went without raises and added furlough days to keep it that way). No opt/out provision for health care or option to take the 80% govt pays and go find a more affordable plan, and no corresponding pay increase. We are now limited to 5 weeks vacation no matter how long we've been working (I only get 3 now, but I know some cops and firemen who've gotten to 6 weeks).
So I find myself on the other side of the fence, not because my position has changed...somebody moved the fence.
Shame, we've worked so hard to keep our City on sound financial ground through the recession and the other problems in NE Ohio. Most cities went under, we saw it coming and started our cuts in 2006. We got our unions to compromise. Now after all that hard work making ends meet we're being lumped into the same sinking boat with Cities that were crushed by debt the last two years.
Well, anyway I guess I'm on the left side now. So how does this work? Do I have to make my own sign? Where do I get my fake doctor's notes? Do I have to chant...because I really don't think this is what democracy looks like?
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.
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This one was enuf to bring me out of lurk.
What you have just experienced Hero, is the curtain being lifted from your eyes.
The conservatives out there dont give a fuck about you. Unless you are contributing 7 figures to their reelections, you are not someone whose interests and well being they will ever consider, or value.
Assuming you have been voting Republican, you have been fooled into voting away your own freedoms, and voting against your own economic interest.
You are hardly alone, well over a hundred million people have been fooled the same way.
You make a reasoned argument about your community's fiscal discipline, and that you have a reasonable expectation that the sacrifices you have agreed to would be enough to feed the beast, and that they wouldn't come after you harder.
What you don't realize is this has nothing to do with the bottom line. This is all about the conservative movement capitilzing on the economic fear of our country to push through an agenda they have had for decades.
Its very similar to GW and Wolfowitz and those scumbags using 911 to invade Iraq.
Its never about what best for the country, its always about what will the country let them get away with.
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They didn't move the fence on you.
That was a fake fence, you just got a glimpse of how far off the real one is.
As to being on this side, it means you actually need to have solid facts for your arguments, lest the trolls burn them down.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueHandedMenace:
They didn't move the fence on you.
That was a fake fence, you just got a glimpse of how far off the real one is.
I disagree. My position has not changed. I still believe that public unions should not have collective bargaining rights. This is because they have the ability to influence elections by voting which creates a conflict of interest.
If unions elect the Mayor and unions bargain for their rights then there is no adversarial process in contract bargaining since they are in effect represented by both labor and management. This leads to the pensions and benefits and salaries that are more then they'd get in comparable private positions.
In my case, however, I did not benefit from collective bargaining. The City sets my salary and my benefits based on what it can afford and what the City Council feels is reasonable for my services. I do not think its right for the state to interfere with the process by setting artificial ceilings. Rather they should act to set minimum standards to preserve the wages and benefits of all workers at a fair level upon which City administrations can build.
The fact is I could make more money as a private attorney and there are many professionals such as myself working in City administration. By setting these artificial ceilings the State is limiting the City's ability to compete with the private sector for experianced and effective workers. Let the City budgets and local leaders make the decision about going with someone with the skills and experiance they need versus what can they afford to pay.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.
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I dont disagree really with anything u r saying on a fundamental level.
I was not saying that your position has changed.
What has chnged is where u sit in relation to what your party believes.
On a separate but related note, it has baffled me for decades why good, decent, middle class and lower people vote rebuplican. Theres nothing in the conservative platform for them, so why do they do it?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
The fact is I could make more money as a private attorney,
If you aren't doing that, why not? If this change is going to cause you a financial hardship, logic suggests that that is what you should have been doing.
Maybe because you love the POWER, because you enjoy being a corporal in the army of the fascist oppressors?
You have just been rewarded for your loyalty.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
So I find myself on the other side of the fence, not because my position has changed...somebody moved the fence.
From a libertarian perspective, this "fence" problem underscores the caution we have towards govt.
Govt has a bad, bad habit of moving fences. It's what they do.
As Frem says, one day the fence is between you kids in school. The next day, they've moved the fence; now it is between you and kids in school PLUS travelers in airports. Tomorrow, the fence will be moved to include people going to stadiums. One day, you find yourself on the other side of the fence almost all the time.
The ultimate problem is not really the moving of the fence. It is having a fence at all to move.
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So you were okay with it as long as it was happening to somebody else, but when it comes home to visit you, not so much.
Welcome to the world of be-careful-what-you-wish-for.
Remember my commentary about how the worst possible thing you do to someone is give them what they want ?
Well, you wanted this, you voted for it - and now that you have to face the consequences, the responsibility, own the results of your own decisions, suddenly you don't want it anymore ?
Well, much as I am inherently hostile to you, I might have been okay with that, save for the fact that you STILL want it for everyone else, just not YOU - which means I will neither support nor aid you in any way, sorry.
Injustice anywhere threatens Justice everywhere, but of course, what know YOU of the J-word, given your whole job is to make sure it never happens.
-Frem
ETA: THIS
Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
You have just been rewarded for your loyalty.
I. Told. You. So.
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Leaving aside collective bargaining, on which topic I am still undecided:Quote:
Boy, Blue, did you nail it! Your first post, I was sitting here nodding and thinking “yes, yes, that’s the truth!”, and everything you said is what I’ve been posting for a while--especially as to
On a separate but related note, it has baffled me for decades why good, decent, middle class and lower people vote rebuplican. Theres nothing in the conservative platform for them, so why do they do it?Quote:
Same for Social Security, Medicare and any number of other things. It’s always baffled me, too. To see how what should be at least semi-intelligent people buy into the propaganda and vote against their own interests has astounded and appalled me ever since I figured it out. Means to me how DAMNED good the Repubs have been at crafting their message and getting it out; seems to work most every time. But why people don’t THINK about it has always amazed me.
This is all about the conservative movement capitilzing on the economic fear of our country to push through an agenda they have had for decades.
Mark Morford put it exactly for me:Quote:
along with the fact that his move, I believe, is a trial balloon that was planned before the 2010 midterms and, as is obvious, other Republican governors are waiting to see how it goes, then will line up and do the same if it flies. My only prayer is that it doesn't fly.
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker is an obstreperous dimestore shill for billionaire right-wing energy barons who despise your very existence
Seems to me like the right pulled a goodie; rather than focusing AS MUCH on federal legislators, they got governors elected who will push their agenda state by state. Good planning, but terrifying to one of the lower middle class!
I'm glad you've seen the light...now, as has been suggested, I hope you look at it even more closely and see what's really going on.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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I'm not sure how things work in the US, but it seems to me that it would be an intrusion into ones liberty to prevent collective bargaining. If I and a group of other employees want to get together to bargain as an entity because we believe it gives us more bargaining power (and it certainly does), then why should there be a statute that prevents that? I don't agree with mandatory unionism, but you can still have collective bargaining. I'm currently in the middle of it right now. The union is involved but doesn't represent everyone, but everyone will reap the benefits (hopefully there will be benefits) of a negotiated agreement, even if they opt out for a private agreement because under law the conditions cannot be worse that the collective one.
Individual bargaining for your contract only works in your favour if you have a skill that is more in demand than available. That's why people unionised in the first place, to give them collective strength when their skills were not enough. Without collective bargaining and unions, you wouldn't have the sick pay in the first place, Hero. You wouldn't have any of your benefits, that someone somewhere fought hard for. I agree that you have had a curtain over your eyes and have not understood the nature of the employer/employee relationship with all of its inherent power inbalances.
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