About the Firefly 'verse. Beyond the obvious.

POSTED BY: Askew
UPDATED: Sunday, August 1, 2004 23:16
VIEWED: 9150
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ASKEW

Thursday, July 29, 2004 6:10 PM

I can't shake this show. It reminds me of when Star Trek was cancelled and you got to examine and contemplate this new universe. I guess I am getting to be that old.

The alliance condones slavery if not outright supports it, but food is strictly controlled; In Serenity they steal and try to sell food, which is so valuable it is molecularly imprinted for tracking and hard to fence.

In Shindig they are on a somewhat advanced planet that continues dueling and slavery yet you have to smuggle the cattle off the planet. In Safe they try to sell the cattle to men who are obviously crooks.

In Serenity Book pays his way onto the ship with fresh strawberry's grown in his monastery (presumably). Badger deals in fresh apples which are implied to be contraband. Even tea is so hard to get that Badger can't get the real stuff.

To make up for his transgression Jayne buys apples which gets noticed by the crew. Fresh fruit is on display in Shindig to emphasise the decadence of the party and wealth of those at the party. Is it like the '20's prohibition when only the wealthy could flaunt alcohol use? By the way, how is Book paying for his passage now?

Does Blue Sun control the food supply?

There are a whole lot of people out there. In one episode 70+ inhabitable planets are mentioned. In just one battle- Serenity Valley half a million troops are killed. The death toll for the war had to be tens of millions and yet there was obviously no draft and many people managed to remain somewhat oblivious to the whole affair. Heck even Jayne a mercenary didn't fight in the war. Where else do mercenaries come from? That means a very large population.

How does the Alliance rule and what was so oppressive about it that Mal felt morally compelled to fight against it. Each planet seems to be run by its own local leaders and has its own local mores. In many cases it seems that the government is even more local than planetary. What is the heavy hand of oppression?

And I know it has been discussed to death, but where are the Chinese? Aside from the obvious reality of shooting the show there is not even a token Asian anywhere. Do the Chinese rule and the Americans are the warrior class? Is Mal so far down the totem pole that he never gets anywhere that the Chinese might be? But what about Simon and River? Do Anglos that reach a certain level take Chinese surnames to be able to continue to climb the ladder? Is changing your last name part of social climbing?

Who are the Blue Hand guys? It is obvious they are government because they travel with credentials and were called by Feds when they thought they had captured River. And yet they killed the Feds without a second thought to the point of killing people who were unconscious when they arrived. Typically when one branch of the government starts killing off other members of the government the big guys tend to get annoyed. What are the factions in this government. who is protecting/supporting the Blue Hands because it is pretty obvious that while the feds and the spacemen are aware of them they don't know who they are. I can't see the head of the FBI being too happy if someone from the NSA started killing off his men. This seems somewhat like an act of desperation and you could foresee problems arising.

This is too long already so I'll stop now. Any other esoteric questions?

The View is Askew

EMBERS

Thursday, July 29, 2004 6:39 PM

well the Whedonverse is obviously NOT the same universe we had always seen on Star Trek! Roddenberry had this lovely Utopian vision of the future where problems of poverty and disease have been solved (or controlled)...
and Joss sees the future as much more like the present, only even worse.

I thought that apples were like caviar of today, so expensive that only the rich can have them.

I think Blue Sun may own and control a lot of things, actually we aren't so far from that now. The Genetically engineered corn & soy beans which has become ubiquitous throughout our food supply (corn starch, corn syrup, soy that is found in beef patties, and soy oil in so many things) in the USA is all copyrighted, there are companies that do own food.

And it is true, when you get way out on the rim (where the TV episodes were set) the locals do appear to be run by local government, but I imagine the taxes and laws are all coming down from the Alliance. But you probably have to go to the Core Alliance planets to actually see the Governmental structure.

And I'm sure this has been said before, but in 500 yrs there has been a lot of intermarrying (probably as a means of social climbing) so Chinese names would become as common as Smith or Jones....

Of course I hope that the movie will bring us to some of the core planets and we'll see more Chinese actors as well as more of the struction of the Government...

There is still more to learn, and I mean that everything we've learned so far isn't even 10% of what Joss has to tell. He was starting a series that he wanted to run for years, and he wasn't going to tell us everything in the first 13 episodes.

CARDIE

Thursday, July 29, 2004 7:27 PM

One possibility re: the scarity of foodstuffs might be that the terraforming doesn't result in very productive soil. Perhaps even the Core Worlds subsist mostly on synthetic Blue Sun food; I'd imagine that a virtual monopoly on food would be a key to the Blue Sun ubiquity and power.

There may be small plots of soil brought from Earth that Was that a few elite keep arable, but it looks as though fresh produce is as precious as diamonds in the Firefly 'verse.

Cardie

RATNUT12

Thursday, July 29, 2004 10:52 PM

Finding adequate soil would indeed be troublesome, in addition you'd also have trouble finding a world with a similar solar cycle(i.e. 24 hour day). Most flowering plants indigenous to Earth take their cues for growth and flowering from the amount of sunlight they are exposed to. One way to get around this would be to grow food indoors where the amount of light could be manipulated. There has been successful large scale indoor manufacturing of some foods, a good example of this is rice. But to grow something as large as an apple tree indoors is simply not efficient and could only be afforded by the wealthy.

34CYGNI

Friday, July 30, 2004 8:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Askew:
The alliance condones slavery if not outright supports it, but food is strictly controlled; In Serenity they steal and try to sell food, which is so valuable it is molecularly imprinted for tracking and hard to fence.

Indentured servitude is legal in the Alliance. Inara claims Mal as "my indentured man" in "The Train Job", and the foreman in "Jaynestown" mentions that most of the Mudders are indentured. Outright slavery may or may not be against the law... In the pilot there is a credit for "Slave #1" and we see Badger checking the teeth of a young lady -- perhaps he's considering whether or not to buy her debt, but it looks more like he's thinking about buying her outright. My guess is that slavery is nominally illegal, but the law isn't aggressively enforced.

As for the idea that food is tightly controlled, I think that's unlikely if only because of the massive logistical problems it would create. At any rate, the "Good Dogs" vendor in the pilot certainly didn't seem to be suffering under the crushing hand of state regulation...

The crew eats "protein in all the colors of the rainbow" most of the time, which suggests that either Serenity has some sort of food-extruding machine on board or that the crew buys in bulk. Either way, it doesn't seem that food is difficult to come by. As for the food bars in the pilot, remember that they were highly concentrated ("One of those'll feed a family for a month. Longer, if they don't like their kids too well.") and included immunization supplements and who knows what-all else, as well. Not your run-of-the-mill protein paste.

The production of food by growing it in the ground (or in hydroponic vats, if you like) requires a lot of time, labor, energy, and especially land. Compared to a machine that sits in the corner and extrudes something nutritious enough to pass for food, growing plants and fattening up cattle is not an efficient use of the available resources on a highly developed world like Persephone (dogs, on the other hand, are adept scavengers...). Food As We Know It is therefore a luxury for most people, enjoyed regularly only by the wealthy -- and colonists on recently-settled worlds that have a low enough population density to allow agriculture and which don't yet have the technological infrastructure to support complex machinery.

Quote:
Originally posted by Askew:
Does Blue Sun control the food supply?

Well, some far-flung subsidiary probably makes the food machines or sells dehydrated protein powder in big plastic buckets, so -- who knows, maybe you're on to something. Holy Soylent Green, Batman!

Quote:
Originally posted by Askew:
In Shindig they are on a somewhat advanced planet that continues dueling and slavery yet you have to smuggle the cattle off the planet. In Safe they try to sell the cattle to men who are obviously crooks.

In Serenity Book pays his way onto the ship with fresh strawberry's grown in his monastery (presumably). Badger deals in fresh apples which are implied to be contraband. Even tea is so hard to get that Badger can't get the real stuff.

To make up for his transgression Jayne buys apples which gets noticed by the crew. Fresh fruit is on display in Shindig to emphasise the decadence of the party and wealth of those at the party. Is it like the '20's prohibition when only the wealthy could flaunt alcohol use?

Nah -- that looks like it's nothing more than just good, old-fashioned conspicuous consumption.

As for smuggling cattle, any expensive commodity will inevitably be drawn into the black market. Doesn't matter if it's legal -- there's a huge worldwide black market in cigarettes IRL, and it's not like they're exceptionally pricey or difficult to obtain... They're just heavily taxed.

Quote:
Originally posted by Askew:
By the way, how is Book paying for his passage now?

With his almost palpable aura of mystery.

I think Book pretty much became part of the crew when he helped rescue the Cap'n

EST120

Friday, July 30, 2004 12:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Askew:
By the way, how is Book paying for his passage now?

i think book has become more of a crew member now than a passenger. he is obviously a valuable person to have around given his knowledge and survival instincts.

Quote:

How does the Alliance rule and what was so oppressive about it that Mal felt morally compelled to fight against it. Each planet seems to be run by its own local leaders and has its own local mores. In many cases it seems that the government is even more local than planetary. What is the heavy hand of oppression?

just remember that mal stays closer to the "outer rim" planets which are very underdeveloped. he does not like going to the core planets. neither does zoe. people like inara and simon and river come from the core which are much more developed. i liken it to the idea of the city versus the country. male is more of a "country" person where people are scattered about more randomly. while inara is more of a "city" girl.

Quote:

And I know it has been discussed to death, but where are the Chinese?

being chinese myself, i am kind of wondering why there are not any chinese characters that the crew have run into (besides someone on the street).

"i can't comprehend the ways that i miss you, they come to light in my mistakes."
-neko case

LIZ

Friday, July 30, 2004 1:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 34CYGNI
Indentured servitude is legal in the Alliance. Inara claims Mal as "my indentured man" in "The Train Job", and the foreman in "Jaynestown" mentions that most of the Mudders are indentured. Outright slavery may or may not be against the law... In the pilot there is a credit for "Slave #1" and we see Badger checking the teeth of a young lady -- perhaps he's considering whether or not to buy her debt, but it looks more like he's thinking about buying her outright. My guess is that slavery is nominally illegal, but the law isn't aggressively enforced.

Well, i could be wrong, but the way it was mentioned off-hand in Shindig ("it must have taken a dozen slaves a dozen days..."), i assumed it was perfectly legal. Indentured servitude might be more common, but i think that slavery is actually legal in the Alliance.

CANTTAKESKY

Friday, July 30, 2004 1:58 PM

In a society ruled by a tyrannical government, it is extremely common for food, especially fresh fruit and vegetables, to rise to the top of the commodity list. Most Americans don't understand this concept because they have never had to stand in a ration line or bread line because of food shortages. But the fact of the matter is that the more heavy-handed and controlling a government becomes, the scarcer food becomes. This is an observable fact when you look at many communist and "third world" countries. I think Joss was trying to depict this hardship to capture just how oppressive the Alliance is.

Think of Nazi Germany in Schindler's List, for example. What were they smuggling? Chocolate, wine, bread.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

JUSTME

Friday, July 30, 2004 2:38 PM

Inadequate soil? On terraformed planets? Unlikely.

*Lunar* soil is more than adequate if humus, water and air are added. I think there's plenty of crops being grown, but they are all in such demand by the urbanized rich central planets, that noone else can afford them and the farmers can't justify selling them at lower prices when they can get the 'big bucks'.

Except for whatever individuals grow in their own little gardens, like Book did.

What I can't understand is why Kaylee, clearly a great lover of strawberries, doesn't grow them hydroponically? Her inter-engine fermentation system could certainly sufficiently purify waste water on board to grow stawberries, tomatoes, beans, etc; all of which LOVE hydroponics. They could be grown in the common area (dining room/ kitchen) where a bit of greenery might be a welcome change from the stark mechanical look of the rest of the ship.

Of course, the real reason for this situation is the same as for all the other curious anomalies on the show (and every other fictional work too): the writers wrote it that way, so that's how it is.

All the same, if Kaylee wants them, I would be happy to forward her all the info I have on hydroponics. Maybe she can convince Captain Tightpants to let me join the crew? ;-)

Just my 2 platinum,
JustMe

WITLESSCHUM

Friday, July 30, 2004 6:32 PM

Yeah, I remember reading one of the first things the Bolsheviks tried to do after taking over was to put the food supply under state control.

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