On Global Warming, which = Climate Change
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Saturday, January 1, 2011 00:26
VIEWED: 5597
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"I do prefer to read all of the evidence, and then decide for myself! I can generally respect the opinions on either side (as long as no one gets too debate-y, or insulting!), as long as they've at least learned some about whichever side they are taking a stance for!
....does this make sense? I'm ill and tired hah!"
Oh, poor thing...
:(
Little one, most here are set in their ways. We just argue to see which side can one-up the other.
"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"
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Haha :) I mean in general....
I'm quite willing to debate it out if needed, no worries ;)
(I think I'll just sleep for now though!)
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Quote:
Originally posted by AlyssRiches:
Haha :) I mean in general....
I'm quite willing to debate it out if needed, no worries ;)
(I think I'll just sleep for now though!)
You're my kind of stupid.
Welcome.
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Quote:That helps to explain an awful lot.
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:Little one, most here are set in their ways. We just argue to see which side can one-up the other.
"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"
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Alyss...welcome again; with the caveat that I hope you know what you're getting yourself into! It gets truly ugly down here, but damn, it's a real treat to hear a new, rational voice, so selfishly I hope you stick around.
I like your style, and yes, that's how I feel too. But don't expect too much in the way of actual "debate" or "discussion" down here, or you'll be disappointed.
Wulf, if you knock off the "you guys" shit, I fully agree; they shoot themselves in the foot. It's a shame. What you forget is the idiocy of those who ALWAYS notice an extreme weather event and laugh "ha ha, no global warming, neener neener", which shows either ignorance, deliberate ignorance or stupidity far beyond ignorance.
On the other hand, now we know your purpose in being here,Quote:
I'll remember that in future.
We just argue to see which side can one-up the other
The difference between global warming and T Rex is that with global warming, time will tell; we can never "know" about T. Rex. However, given there's evidence of him attacking and/or eating other beasties, I'd bet he's like our Bald Eagle; a hunter if necessary, a scavenger if convenient.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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The funny thing is, the people who quite frequently lament the "lack of discussion" are the people who do so little of it.
Rappy, Wulf, Kaneman and Whozit. Time and time again, they fail to bring convincing arguments to the table. Or they resort to name-calling. Or they veer off the point, or duck out of thread altogether when challenged to do nothing more than explain their position, or substantiate their viewpoint. And that's not even counting PN, who's batshit and uses this forum as an extension of his website.
I am capable of changing my mind, and some people here HAVE changed my thinking.
But you've got to CONVINCE me. I'm not going to change my mind because someone keeps blathering the same stupid talking points and videos at me ad infinitum ad nauseum.
So far, the only thing the right-wing has convinced me of is the fact that they don't even understand their own points very well... certainly, not enough to go toe-to-toe and in detail about them. Emotion? Conviction? They got plenty of that. Facts and reasoning ability? Not so much. If I wanted to believe in a religion, I'd be religious already. Why should I believe in theirs?
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Quote:I don't think persuasion is a matter of "convincing arguments." It is a matter of...charisma if you will. Saying the facts and figures in *just* the RIGHT way.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Time and time again, they fail to bring convincing arguments to the table....
I am capable of changing my mind, and some people here HAVE changed my thinking.
But you've got to CONVINCE me.
I have seen all those people, Rap, Kaneman, Whozit, PN, etc. bring up facts and ideas that are correct. But the WAY they say it makes people not want to accept it. Then Frem or HK or Anthony come along and say the nearly same things, and wow, everyone's onboard.
Unconvincing people have convincing arguments too, which are unfortunately obscured by how much they are disliked. It's basic psychology underlying ad hominem. Kane can say the sky is blue, and no one will want to believe it cause it was Kane who said it.
Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.
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Sig: Yes. Period.
CTTS:Quote:
I think that's the answer more than because they are disliked. Occasionally Raptor has made a valid point, and I respond when he does so rationally without the things Signy described. I've even agreed with him at least a couple of times, or granted that within what he said were valid points. I think people respond to how things are phrased, and given they're usually phrased nastily by those mentioned, it turns people off to hearing them.
the WAY they say it makes people not want to accept it.
Note that Kane has said clearly that he's only here to harrass people; Wulf just recently stated "we're" only here to try and one-up one another (which means HE is). Raptor has never, that I can recall, claimed either of those, and does address the issue at least maybe half the time. I can even overlook his snarks sometimes when his point is valid, but I don't see the others, nor certainly Whozit(!) as having any reason to be here except to spew. PN doesn't even come into it, for me.
It's not charisma, it's communicating. When someone communicates, I take what they say seriously. Those mentioned just don't even attempt to communicate, and I don't believe it's their purpose to do so.
I've had my mind changed, but I don't expect it to be. I expect debate will be just that; debate between differing opinions. I used to belong to the "other" NFL--National Forensic League. The purpose in debates was never to convince, it was to air both sides with good points, and that's how debates were scored; not who "won", but how well they communicated their side. And no, I didn't partake of the debate aspects, I was never eloquent enough to do so; I was involved in the dramatic events.
So yes, it IS about the way things are said, to me, but not "charisma". Certainly previous exchanges create a "veil" through which subsequent posts are viewed, and expectation can cloud people actually "hearing" what's said. But for me anyone can make a valid point to which I will respond if they CHOOSE to, and I will respect their point of view and respond to it if they do. It's just that those mentioned virtually never do, and Raptor only say half the time. 
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
The funny thing is, the people who quite frequently lament the "lack of discussion" are the people who do so little of it.
Rappy, Wulf, Kaneman and Whozit. Time and time again, they fail to bring convincing arguments to the table. Or they resort to name-calling. Or they veer off the point, or duck out of thread altogether when challenged to do nothing more than explain their position, or substantiate their viewpoint. And that's not even counting PN, who's batshit and uses this forum as an extension of his website.
I am capable of changing my mind, and some people here HAVE changed my thinking.
But you've got to CONVINCE me. I'm not going to change my mind because someone keeps blathering the same stupid talking points and videos at me ad infinitum ad nauseum.
So far, the only thing the right-wing has convinced me of is the fact that they don't even understand their own points very well... certainly, not enough to go toe-to-toe and in detail about them. Emotion? Conviction? They got plenty of that. Facts and reasoning ability? Not so much. If I wanted to believe in a religion, I'd be religious already. Why should I believe in theirs?
I'm just tired of having to try and convince you the world isn't flat.
You seem to think that 'debate' is the end all be all of determining truth. It isn't. I don't want to convince you. It can't be done. Despite your claims, you've already made up your mind. This isn't, to me at least, in any way a " Left / Right " issue, save for the fact that those pushing the global warming story have openly stated that the goal isn't to clean up anything ( cap and tax is the proof ), but to transfer wealth from the haves to the have-nots. A classic Left wing position.
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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