Broancoat War Atrocities?

POSTED BY: Sardonica
UPDATED: Thursday, July 29, 2004 23:01
VIEWED: 8613
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CORWYN

Wednesday, July 28, 2004 3:00 PM

Quote:
he we referring to atrocities committed by The Browncoats against the Alliance

.

I am sure atrocities were committed. Show me a war where they weren't. By both sides. War is atrocities on a wholesale level.

Quote:
the Alliance really hasn't done ANYTHING to show that they are any sort of "evil dictatorship."

Well if you want a example, the one I always use is from Mr. Tam (who is definitely pro-alliance). He says that bailing out his son, (who was in a 'forbidden zone'), and needing to pass through the police station door, goes on his permanent record!

Thanks but no thanks. Our (US) current moves towards a police state are frightening enough for me.

Thank You Kindly,

Corwyn

PURPLEBELLY

Wednesday, July 28, 2004 3:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by corwyn:
bailing out his son, (who was in a 'forbidden zone'), and needing to pass through the police station door, goes on his permanent record!

It's blackout zone, which suggests somewhere it's dangerous to be rather than illegal;if you want to say to stay healthy, just keep moving right on through.
We don't know why Simon Tam is being held. It could be that he has been picked up while in criminal company; imagine a senior politician's son being picked up in the company of, say, cocaine dealers. If we assume that the people that can help River are a cell of the True Alliance, then political activists have been known to keep strange company; The Outfit can make things happen.

The reference to the Police Station door is to emphasise that this had to be done officially, and not by exercise of the Tam family's social influence, which again suggests criminal rather than political apprehension.

BROWNCOAT1

Wednesday, July 28, 2004 6:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sardonica:
I just rewatched Bushwacked and was struck by something that the Alliance Commander said while interrogating Mal.

Referring to the "survivor" of the Reever-hit derelict ship, the Alliance CO said something to the effect of, "I haven't seen such mutilation since... well, since the war." From the tone of his voice it's obvious (at least to me) that he we referring to atrocities committed by The Browncoats against the Alliance, not the other way around...

This adds much depth to the history of the Firefly universe. When you come to think of it, aside from the experimentation on River (which may not be an "Alliance" project at all, but simply a privately funded science group or even Blue Sun) the Alliance really hasn't done ANYTHING to show that they are any sort of "evil dictatorship." Sure they're uptight and and beaurocratic and by-the-book, but evil power-mongers? Upon rewatching the series for the fourth time, I don't see any evidence for it. Sure we only really get the viewpoints of the main characters, but they are most certainly jaded--after all, they (Mal and Zoe, at least) fought on the other side of the war. And for that matter, Book doesn't seem overly opposed to the Alliance and their rule...

Could it be that the Browncoats weren't exactly the good guys that we think they are? We're never really even were told what it was that they were fighting for, ony who they were fighting against... the Alliance.

I'm sure that, as with everything, each side has it's own beliefs and motives. But it seems that there might be less to dislike the Alliance for (other than that they seem to uphold the law and crack down on criminals, which is what the Serenity crew are!) and a credible shade of doubt for the actions of the Browncoats (Mal certainly didn't even try to deny the Browncoat atrocites--in fact, his expression was one of admittance).

Something to think about...

Chief Editor, AFM
www.apocalypsefiction.com
Writer/Producer, The NUKE Brothers
www.nukebrothers.com

Edit: Excuse the typo in the title of this post--the edit feature doesn't seem to apply to titles...! "Browncoat" NOT "Broancoat." D'oh!

Welcome to the board Sardonica!

You know I had wondered about the Alliance Captain's line too. It was vague as to who exactly had committed what atrocities and how they were committed. It could have been something done by one or both sides, either deliberately or as a result of modern warfare.

Unfortunately, until Joss decides to give us more of the back story, all we can do is speculate.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

SHAMBLEAU

Wednesday, July 28, 2004 6:28 PM

Soupcatcher's take on the composition of the Independants is mine. Another reason to love the show - it's not white hats/black hats.

shambleau

SHINYSEVEN

Wednesday, July 28, 2004 7:29 PM

I can easily understand how a guerilla force, with fewer troops and less conventional fire power than the established army, would succumb to the temptation to use whatever means were at hand, including terrorist tactics.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, July 28, 2004 7:54 PM

I think the Commander was merely setting the stage for his prosecution of Mal by 'making up' a case as he went along. Clearly he had no evidence that Mal or Serenity had been involved w/ the attack on the ship carrying 16 families. But it sure would bump him up the line of command if he could capture pirates 'in the act'. His word against their's, right?

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

SARDONICA

Wednesday, July 28, 2004 8:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
It was vague as to who exactly had committed what atrocities and how they were committed. It could have been something done by one or both sides, either deliberately or as a result of modern warfare.

Yes, it's certainly vague! But, IMHO, the line also seemed to be written/delivered as a barb to take some of the wind out've Malcom's sails. I don't think that the CO was referring to an atrocity committed by Mal, per se, but rather, I did get the impression that there might've been one particularly awful atrocity committed by the Browncoats, something which has made the news and entered into popular understanding of history.

Certainly, as a Browncaot (even though he wasn't personally involved in the atrocity) Mal may have felt a certain degree of responsibility and regret for the incident--that's the impression I got from Mal's sullen expression and lack of retort (when is Mal EVER short on witty comebacks?!).

That's my 2 cents!

Chief Editor, AFM
www.apocalypsefiction.com
Writer/Producer, The NUKE Brothers
www.nukebrothers.com

PURPLEBELLY

Wednesday, July 28, 2004 8:56 PM

This is a very small textual point, but as it's my tag quote I feel I must
Harken is speaking of his own witness of the result of torture, though we know no more than that.
We don't know a lot about Harken. Commander is a strange rank to find on a cruiser. If he is the commanding officer, he takes an unusually flamboyant role in leading a small patrol; perhaps he is officer of the watch.

Candidly, my choice of Board ID was inspired by Doug Savant's fortitude on the gag-reel as well as my inclination to be contrary

RIVERGIRL

Wednesday, July 28, 2004 11:03 PM

[
I'm sure that, as with everything, each side has it's own beliefs and motives. But it seems that there might be less to dislike the Alliance for (other than that they seem to uphold the law and crack down on criminals, which is what the Serenity crew are!) and a credible shade of doubt for the actions of the Browncoats (Mal certainly didn't even try to deny the Browncoat atrocites--in fact, his expression was one of admittance).

Something to think about...

could not he have meant ALLIANCE hadn't tortured anyone like that since the war??

Also, I can kill you with my brain.

SARDONICA

Wednesday, July 28, 2004 11:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rivergirl:

could not he have meant ALLIANCE hadn't tortured anyone like that since the war??

Possibly, but that wouldn't really make sense. He was trying to make Maln and the Broancoats look bad, not to incriminate himself or make the Alliance look bad...?

Chief Editor, AFM
www.apocalypsefiction.com
Writer/Producer, The NUKE Brothers
www.nukebrothers.com

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