Janet Napolitano
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 20:24
VIEWED: 6796
PAGE 5 of 6
Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
The point is, though, it is a whole different mindset--a whole different way of looking at the same problem. Instead of an authoritarian mindset of people-must-do-as-we-say-or-everyone-will-die, it is a mindset of we-cannot-let-terrorism-cripple-our-lives. We will run business as usual, and let security for terrorism interfere as little with it as possible.
I think citizens demanded that the gov or airlines do something, how could they not? Maybe it wasn't you who demanded it or what they came up with wasn't what you wanted, but it's just regular people trying to plug that darn damn with a cork that sometimes turns into a sledgehammer. Humans, whaddy going to do? They make a mess of just about everything. Seriously, name a single gov program that people like and works... it'd be easy to think that all they do all day long is figure out how to fail. Or maybe it's just not as easy as it sounds on a forum?
Here's something else to consider: do you really think that Mr. Rafi Sela, the guy doing Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport's security is going to tell a reporter exactly what their security is and why it's successful? For all we know Israel has every entrance to the airport scanned with high resolution x-rays and they just aren't telling anyone.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Quote:Sure. But they can also learn from their own mistakes, and from people who've been there. It's not too late convene a panel of security experts and redesign our airport security system--all we need is a commitment to a different philosophy of doing things. If they want, they can try it out at one airport, say Logan. And if passengers are pleased and the security works, expand it to the rest of the country.
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Humans, whaddy going to do? They make a mess of just about everything.
Quote:It is possible he is lying his ass off. I wouldn't know. It is not parsimonious to ASSUME he is lying unless we have reason to suspect he is, such as inconsistencies in his story. I don't see any such red flags.
Here's something else to consider: do you really think that Mr. Rafi Sela, the guy doing Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport's security is going to tell a reporter exactly what their security is and why it's successful? For all we know Israel has every entrance to the airport scanned with high resolution x-rays and they just aren't telling anyone.
Whether he is lying or not telling us the whole truth, there are some reasonable observations we can make.
1) Israeli airport security is pretty damn effective. So whatever they are doing, we could be doing.
2) Israeli airport security is fast, doesn't involve health risks, sexual molestation, or voyeurism that we know of, and is not annoying. So whatever they are doing, we could be doing.
If they are secretly x-raying everyone, then I would say it is working. Let's seriously consider doing that. At least weigh the pros and cons.
BUT I seriously doubt that they have the technology to x-ray people while they are moving and without an imaging surface (x-rays gotta have "film"). It would defy our current understanding of how x-ray technology works.
It is like asking, "How do you know they don't have a time machine that goes into the future and finds out who all the terrorists are, and THAT is how they keep it so secure?" Well, it's possible, I guess. I don't know they don't do that for sure. But it is reasonable to assume they are limited to using real world technology as we know it, like everybody else, OK?
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Quote:That is one of the most moving and stunning commentaries I have ever read regarding 9/11. You should put that on a blog somewhere. It'll probably go viral.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
What if planes were flying again by 9/13/01?
What if construction on replacement identical towers began on 9/11/02?
What if we still wore shoes at airport screenings after 12/22/01?
What if we didn't attack any countries in 10/07/01?
What if we didn't create the Patriot Act, or the Department of Homeland Security?
What if we didn't X-ray passengers or caress their genitalia?
What if, after the catastrophic loss of life and the destruction of property caused by the Terrorist attacks...
We just yawned and got back to work?
Would America be destroyed now? Did we save it by becoming a hysterical people obsessed with Terrorism? Did all our fears and commotion and wars and reduction of civil liberties culminate in heroically saving America? Are we all heroes?
Or is it possible that we did all that stuff for negligible benefit, when all the money, blood, and tangible intangibles are accounted for?
Bravo, Anthony. YOU'RE my hero. Bravo.
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:That is one of the most moving and stunning commentaries I have ever read regarding 9/11. You should put that on a blog somewhere. It'll probably go viral.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
What if planes were flying again by 9/13/01?
What if construction on replacement identical towers began on 9/11/02?
What if we still wore shoes at airport screenings after 12/22/01?
What if we didn't attack any countries in 10/07/01?
What if we didn't create the Patriot Act, or the Department of Homeland Security?
What if we didn't X-ray passengers or caress their genitalia?
What if, after the catastrophic loss of life and the destruction of property caused by the Terrorist attacks...
We just yawned and got back to work?
Would America be destroyed now? Did we save it by becoming a hysterical people obsessed with Terrorism? Did all our fears and commotion and wars and reduction of civil liberties culminate in heroically saving America? Are we all heroes?
Or is it possible that we did all that stuff for negligible benefit, when all the money, blood, and tangible intangibles are accounted for?
Bravo, Anthony. YOU'RE my hero. Bravo.
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Arrogant and proud of it.
Right there with ya, CTS. Anthony's is a voice that's been sorely missed around here, and should be welcomed by ALL sides.
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Napolitano, we've got something for YOUR junk:
The Dildo of Mass Destruction!
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From Michael Roberts, the first one to refuse to be scanned or pat-down, a working link to the video where a 3 year old screamed "Stop touching me!"
http://fedupflyers.org/
He brings up some very good points in his article, I think, including:
Quote:
Watching it again, notice the TSA official’s comment that screeners should “come up with some kind of game” to entice children to be inappropriately touched by strangers. Such deceptive tactics come right out of the child abduction/pedophile handbook, no?
Makes me shudder.
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Arrogant and proud of it.
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why is the government in control of airline security anyways? this is the root of the whole problem! each airline individually should be responsible for its own security.
if X-rays and pat downs are worth the added illusion of safety, choose an airline which accomodates you. if youd rather just get in and get out, take your chances, there should be an airline available to accomodate you. if theres an airline that allows passengers to carry(firearms) on board, and that sounds appealing to you, you should have that option.
this is entirely an issue of free markets and personal choice, and the only solution to this problem. people should be free to shop as they please without being subject to a one-size-fits-all government monopoly. there are a billion different opinions on what is acceptable, so rather then forcing a single standardized version on everyone, allow CHOICE! i cant believe conservatives have missed the ball on this one-this was their chance to emphasize the strengths of the free market and freedom of choice.
during this holiday season, imagine the demand for no hassle airport screening! such an airline would make a killing. because some airlines may have less intrusive or altogether different screening measures, this does not imply that some will be less safe as a consequence. returning the responsibility of the safety of an airlines customers and property is a good thing. who has greater incentive to protect its property and passengers then each individual airline?
and, id be willing to bet that private security companies, in competition with eachother over security contracts, would develope technology and strategies far in advance of what the TSA is enforcing
its fundemental... and its maddening that privatizing security is not part of this whole debate. we've accepted the premise that government decides what the conditions of flight are. its not right. this is just advancement of the police state. then it will be xrays at government buildings, librarys, hospitals.. its the proverbial slippery slope. free markets, freedom of choice, profit motive, mutual cooperation- thats the answer
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dbl
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Quote:Good point, antimason. Definitely something to consider.
Originally posted by antimason:
its fundemental... and its maddening that privatizing security is not part of this whole debate. we've accepted the premise that government decides what the conditions of flight are.
Airline 1: "We cut costs in security so we can pass those savings, AND conveniences, to YOU. (Waiver of indemnity in event of terrorist attack required before purchase."
Airline 2: "We crawl up everyone's ass, including yours, to look for bombs. But you can't get a higher terrorist-free guarantee anywhere else. Children get a free book, 'My First Cavity Search' with purchase."
I would love to see who gets more business. LOL
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Ant, the thing about that is, it SOUNDS good - let everyone decide for themselves - but that's pretty much how 9/11 happened.
You can let people "take their chances", and that's all fine and good, right up until someone flies a planeload of people into a building full of other people. Did the workers at WTC agree to "take their chances", too?
That will no doubt be characterized by some as a ringing endorsement of the current state of "security theatre", when in fact it's nothing of the kind.
I don't know what "The Answer™" to all this mess is; I only know that molestation ISN'T the answer.
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