What do we teach our children?
POSTED BY: canttakesky
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 6, 2025 13:01
VIEWED: 1967
PAGE 2 of 3
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
The key to avoiding 99.99999% of terrorist attacks is not abusing other nations and their people to the point where they're willing to die to make a point of things, .....
This is golden.
I knew you were good for it, Frem.
Loved that rant. Every fucking word.
----
The key to avoiding 99.99999% of terrorist attacks is not abusing other nations and their people to the point where they're willing to die to make a point of things...
--Frem
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Aaaaaaaannnnnnddd here we go again!
Republican Senator urges Obama to support war with Iran, ‘confrontation’ with China
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/republican-senator-urges-obama-supp
ort-war-iran-confrontation-china/
I've no doubt that the tea-baggers will be quick to smack this idea down, right? I mean, surely y'all won't support this.
The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.
AURaptor's Greatest Hits:
Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:Quote:
The key to avoiding 99.99999% of terrorist attacks is not abusing other nations and their people to the point where they're willing to die to make a point of things, where they have no hope of a better future thanks in great part to our actions, and that won't go away overnight - I mean, what CAN we offer a guy whos home, family, crops and livestock was "collateral damage", who has nothing left BUT grudge... a fuckin apology ?
Well, that and a channel for a proper redress of grievances. The thing is when we give them no voice in the process of change and no option to make cases against those who have wronged them and their families then we do reduce them to most base options left.
Of course, there's a decent chance that that's what TPTB want...
Well, YEAH - given that every attack merely fattens their wallets by increasing the need for security theatre!
Frem didn't directly mention it, but follow the money, and you'll no doubt find that some enterprising security company with ties to TPTB already has a magical new machine that will scan freight shipments, to keep us all safe from package bombs.
The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.
AURaptor's Greatest Hits:
Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.
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Quote:Refer to which post? The one I'm replying to? What about it? Really, I'm confused.
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Oh, and I would refer Niki and Mal to this post, this is where authoritarian behavior and mindset is really coming from.
And please to explain more: which mindset do you mean? The authoritarian mentality itself, or the definition of it as a psychological term. You're connecting back to the RWA thing, right?
I'm really not trying to be obtuse here. I just honestly don't understand what you're saying.
I'm also not sure what you're after by pointing out that this was done by university students, who therefore must be liberals. I suspect that you're trying to stress that "liberals" can fall prey to the RWA mindset. That is not in doubt: as I said in the other thread: "RW" in RWA does not refer to the right wing of politics, and not every RWA is a political conservative. Nor is every political conservative an RWA. No one, that I know of, has made such a blanket statement.
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Right, I actually had figured out that much, but you can't just hire terrorists and make it look like war, people have to be fighting you. And people fight you because you've given them no channel for a redress of grievances. But they can always shoot you.
And I would point out that the first senator to make the motion was our (gag) senator, though she'd never actually lived here: Hillary Clinton.
The tea party started out anti war, and I hope it stays that way, but if some of the corporate whores it undoubtedly just elected go along with it, then they have to be re-educated. So you see the need for my little project?
Life becomes a lot more pleasant once you realize there are no enemies, just some misguided friends.
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Quote:
The key to avoiding 99.99999% of terrorist attacks is not abusing other nations and their people to the point where they're willing to die to make a point of things, where they have no hope of a better future thanks in great part to our actions, and that won't go away overnight - I mean, what CAN we offer a guy whos home, family, crops and livestock was "collateral damage", who has nothing left BUT grudge... a fuckin apology ?
Because we're the only nation that intervenes and tries to influence what goes on outside of our own borders.
Riiiiiight.
"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
The key to avoiding 99.99999% of terrorist attacks is not abusing other nations and their people to the point where they're willing to die to make a point of things, where they have no hope of a better future thanks in great part to our actions, and that won't go away overnight - I mean, what CAN we offer a guy whos home, family, crops and livestock was "collateral damage", who has nothing left BUT grudge... a fuckin apology ?
Because we're the only nation that intervenes and tries to influence what goes on outside of our own borders.
Riiiiiight.
"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."
Because we're the only nation that suffers any kind of terrorist attack.
Riiiiiiiight.
Pretty much every nation that putzes around outside its own borders pays a price for doing so.
The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.
AURaptor's Greatest Hits:
Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Because we're the only nation that suffers any kind of terrorist attack.
Riiiiiiiight.
Pretty much every nation that putzes around outside its own borders pays a price for doing so.
like Indonesia? ( Bali Bombings )
Like Russia ? ( Beslan massacre )
Like India ? ( Mumbai attack )
3 countries that got attacked, by 'some' group, and not for anything they've done outside of their own borders.
Hmm..
Who were those attackers, in each and every instance ?
"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."
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A similar study was done at Stanford, the “Stanford Prison Experiment”. It was done with students:Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
The participants adapted to their roles well beyond what even Zimbardo himself expected, leading the guards to display authoritarian measures and ultimately to subject some of the prisoners to torture. In turn, many of the prisoners developed passive attitudes and accepted physical abuse, and, at the request of the guards, readily inflicted punishment on other prisoners who attempted to stop it.
It was so bad the experiment was stopped after only six days.
Mal is correct:Quote:
Even Bob Altemeyer, who wrote “The Authoritrians” which I often quote, wrote:
"RW" in RWA does not refer to the right wing of politics, and not every RWA is a political conservative. Nor is every political conservative an RWA. No one, that I know of, has made such a blanket statement.Quote:
The fact that it is called “RIGHT wing Authoritarianism” is something the RWAs here (who best exemplify the trait) have glomed onto and believe refers to the Republican Party. It does not. As to your crack about university students being “overwhelmingly liberal”, might I respectfully remind you that the study was cited at Yale; Both George HW Bush and George Bush attended Yale.
I call these followers rightwing authoritarians. I’m using the word “right” in one of its earliest meanings, for in Old English “riht”(pronounced “writ”) as an adjective meant lawful, proper, correct, doing what the authorities said.
In North America people who submit to the established authorities to extraordinary degrees often turn out to be political conservatives, so you can call them “right-wingers” both in my new-fangled psychological sense and in the usual political sense as well. But someone who lived in a country long ruled by Communists and who ardently supported the Communist Party would also be one of my psychological right-wing authoritarians even though we would also say he was a political left-winger. So a right-wing authoritarian follower doesn’t necessarily have conservative political views. Instead he’s someone who readily submits to the established authorities in society, attacks others in their name, and is highly conventional. It’s an aspect of his personality, not a description of his politics. Rightwing authoritarianism is a personality trait, like being characteristically bashful or happy or grumpy or dopey.
I, too, would be interest in your reference to bring your post to my attention. This is not where “authoritarian behavior and mindset is really coming from”, they’ve been around throughout the history of man. And the book I quote didn’t get the concept of RWA from the study cited, either, it’s about something altogether different, albeit somewhat connected.
Mal is also correct, as I’ve said before, in thatQuote:
As with the current Islamaphobia and the New York Community Center, as well as with what is discussed here, many of us are playing directly into the hands of what the terrorists’ main aim IS. The RWA’s here don’t seem able to grasp that, and Fox, etc., are doing an excellent job of encouraging it, which is weird because they KNOW what they’re doing, and are doing it happily in order to further their right-wing agenda. Xenophobia, hate and fear are the order of the day, and thus far it’s serving the Republicans far more than the Democrats.
We have let the damned terrorists win by just giving up our freedoms.
I agree wholeheartedly with DT on:Quote:
as well as
Well, that and a channel for a proper redress of grievances. The thing is when we give them no voice in the process of change and no option to make cases against those who have wronged them and their families then we do reduce them to most base options left.Quote:
Another thing some people don’t get; the mental
people fight you because you've given them no channel for a redress of grievances. But they can always shoot you.
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Just a side note: There ARE actually LWAs, as well, you can find em occasionally in the Libertarian Party, but mostly amongst the more Nihilistic branches of Anarchism and most especially with non-NewAge or more Esoteric religious beliefs.
And they're every bit as dangerous, in their own way, sometimes even more so because one way people bulk up their political position when it's not supported by the mainstream is sheer rabidity.
(Look at the 2nd amendment folk as a case in point there - although I am of the opinion that you defend em all, or you just don't bother)
Robespierre was an LWA, which became RWA only when public sentiment and values ran a sea-change and came in behind him as the new established "Right", and that didn't really work out so well for em all in the short run.
The whole of it is actually better summed up by it's extremism - cause I kinda reject "Lucifer Effect" of the type suggested by the Stanford Prison, Milgram and other related experiments, as well as propaganda like Lord of the Flies due to both essential sample corruption, and that they seem to be "cooked" in a fashion to support a premise that is at best flawed, if not unsustainable.
You can't take a sample from a society in which folks have their humanity crushed out of them from the very cradle, pull it from one of the most authoritarian institutions on the planet (public/college "education") and then suggest that humans are naturally inhumane and authoritarian - because your "study" has been inadvertently pre-loaded to produce that exact result whether you meant it or not.
That is why the MK-Ultra and other experiments failed, cause via mass-media, propaganda (like Hearst, father of yellow journalism) and other social interventions, often times downright physical ones, like seizing children from "undesirable" subcultures (native americans, mormons) and "re-educating" them - we'd ALREADY *been* involved in pyschological manipulation and programming/conditioning on a grand scale, and the damn fools running things didn't seem to realize they were running their experiments in an ant farm which was itself a larger experiment by people who'd been doing it ever since Plato suggested it.
Lest one forget, I am a Rosseau-Kropotkinist, a belief I did not come by arbitrarily, but by seeking the CAUSES of behavior, rather than their outcomes, and the singlemost disastrous concept we have is that "People are naturally evil, and must be controlled for thier own good!" - a concept for the most part offered to us with one hand BY people offering a leash in the other, for their own reasons...
So you can't take a group of people CONDITIONED for twenty some (or even ten, as in Lord of the Flies ) years to a certain behavior, and then try to make the case that it's inborn, that's bloody ridiculous - and many recent studies by researchers overseas have shown it, by pointing out that unconditioned children for the most part do not display those behaviors.
If I wanted to spike the hell out of Milgram, I'd simply select the sample from entirely FreeSchool/HomeSchool children, and lay good odds you'd not find one in ten who would follow through.
Genetics might load the gun, but it's environment which pulls the trigger - and sure, while there's some exceptions to that, misfire an whatnot, this is the bulk of humanity, they're trained to a behavior that is unnatural, unhuman even cause for a fact were we really inherently like this - how the hell did we ever build civilization in the first place ?
Cause if you buy into all that rot, you wind up with a chicken-and-egg problem - namely, how did we build civilization to civilize us, if we need to be forcibly civilized to get anything done ?
(And I use the term civilized in a very tongue in cheek sense here!)
Quote:
THIS is civilization ?!
Thank Crom I am a barbarian!
-Conan
Anyhow, the essence of Authoritarian thinking is it's extremity, and that is not limited to any specific political, social or religious faction, never was and never will be.
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