Ariel - and Mal's forgiveness

POSTED BY: TauSetiPrime
UPDATED: Monday, August 2, 2004 02:19
VIEWED: 23705
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STEVETHEPIRATE

Friday, July 23, 2004 9:25 PM

Here's my two cents.

Mal tells Simon the "If I ever kill you..." line because he now trusts Simon, understands the motive behind any and all of his actions and, above all, knows Simon is, at his core, a good person.

Mal kills the unarmed Crow because Crow poses a significant threat to the crew of Serenity and shows no potential for thinking in any other fashion. In other words, he has no redeeming qualities and could serve no positive purpose for Mal and his crew.

Mal suckerpunches Jayne and puts him in harms way while unconcious because Jayne poses a significant threat to anyone within arm's reach, has betrayed the crew and, at his core, is not entirely trustworthy.

It's not a double-standard, it's common sense.

Of course, two cents can't buy much.

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Friday, July 23, 2004 10:03 PM

My take?

Ariel is the start of Jayne's redemption story - I've posted on other threads that Jayne would betray Mal and Co (had the series continued) at some point in the future, and IMO would have gone to the "dark side" and back.

Adam could have carried that journey off - and it would have been stunning to watch.

Jayne telling Mal to "make something up" is the cogs whirring. Two eps ago he saw how an "evil" act of his was deified by Canton, and that stayed with him. He could take that Mal would space him, but not that he died a villan.

"I threw up on your bed"

RANGER

Friday, July 23, 2004 11:04 PM

Ok, now for something completely different. I've been thinking that Mal never really forgives Jayne. What he does is lay out a deal for him, and then waits to see if he accepts (kind of like the Crow situation). The question for Mal isn't does he trust Jayne enough to keep him on the crew, but does Jayne respect Mal's decisions. Mal's first priority is protecting his crew, and he's willing to go down with the ship to do it if he has to. Mal made Simon crew, and Jayne has never recognized that. Jayne tries to explain his decision as selling out Simon and River, not betraying Mal. Mal has to remind Jayne that by selling out Simon, he is selling out Mal and as Mal says, "since you can't seem to wrap your brain around that, you've got no place here" (or words to that effect). So, if Jayne has no place on the boat, he can't be allowed to live because he is a threat to the crews' survival (he could, for example, tell the Feds about who killed Dobson and where it happened just for starters).

So, the question isn't why does Mal forgive Jayne, but why does he accept that Jayne has wrapped his brain around the issue of who's in charge. I think it may be that Jayne's request is a recognition of Mal's authority over his life and how he will be remembered.

Just my thoughts...

Traveller, if you go to Sparta, tell them you have seen us lying here as the Law commands.

RANGER

Saturday, July 24, 2004 2:38 PM

Ok, a little clarification on my previous post. So, what is it about that final interaction between Jayne and Mal that changes Mal's mind? I think it comes down to priorities.

Mal's problem with Jayne's actions (besides the fact that they were just dumb) seems to be that they are a rejection of Mal's authority as captain. Mal made Simon Crew and Jayne rejected that decision. Being crew means you look after each other and watch each others' backs. For the captain it means doing what ever it takes to protect them.

What Jayne does at the end of the scene is accept Mal's authority as captain (by accepting Mal's judgement of him) and he puts the crew first in his mind. Jayne's last request could have been about his family back home or what to do with all his guns and knives, but when it comes down to it, it's the crew (including Simon and River) and his relationship to them, even after he is gone, that matters most. By putting the crew first Jayne shows Mal he can be trusted (at least as far as he ever could be trusted before).

So, in the end, no forgiveness, just a re-affermation of the deal. 'You live by my law... you have a place on my crew.'

Traveller, if you go to Sparta, tell them you have seen us lying here as the Law commands.

THEREALME

Saturday, July 24, 2004 3:58 PM

Yes. I never thought through all the details like that, but that all sounds right.

The Real Me

THEREALME

Saturday, July 24, 2004 3:58 PM

But I did think it odd that Wash's control panel didn't show a flashing red light telling him the air lock was not shut completely...

The Real Me

SHINYSEVEN

Saturday, July 24, 2004 4:49 PM

It's possible that Jayne, like Spike, was supposed to have only a few episodes, but thanks to a charismatic performer was too much damn fun to watch to get rid of--thus opening up the option of character redemption.

"Sadistic crap legitimized by florid prose"

PURPLEBELLY

Saturday, July 24, 2004 4:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheRealMe:
... flashing red light telling him the air lock was not shut completely

Probably the same faulty sub-system that doesn't alert the use of an air-lock in Objects in Space.
Try telling that to a cop when the reversing klaxon on your truck is bust

NEDWARD

Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheRealMe:
But I did think it odd that Wash's control panel didn't show a flashing red light telling him the air lock was not shut completely...

I thought the only thing Wash's control panel shows is whether or not the ship's landlocked.

SIKKUKUT

Saturday, July 24, 2004 7:39 PM

I've always found it to be a fascinating question whether Mal actually planned to kill Jayne or not. Myself, I'm still undecided, but perhaps over the course of this post I will develop an opinion. The problem for us as audience, of course, is that either Mal was planning on spacing Jayne, or he was doing his damnedest to convince Jayne of that fact... and either way, it looks the same to us.

I've actually had a bit of trouble consistently outlining Mal's policy on when you leave an enemy alive. Let's think it through. Patience lives, Dobson dies, Crow dies, Wing lives, Saffron lives, Jayne lives, Niska lives (but I don't think that was by Mal's choice), Tracy dies, Saffron lives again, Rance Burgess dies but not by Mal's hand, and Early... well, probably dies. I'm not seeing the pattern here. And note that other than Dobson, I'm not really counting people who die in battle because that A) is a given and B) would take too long.

Okay, we can divide these basically into categories: He killed Tracy, Dobson, and (probably) Early because it was the most efficient way of dealing with the threat they posed. Burgess also falls into that category-- although he didn't pose an immediate threat, it was Mal's opinion that he would never leave those women alone. Patience, Crow, Wing, and Saffron (both times) all fall under the category of mercy to a defeated enemy. Again, Crow demonstrates the desire to threaten them again and an unwillingness to abide by their plans. And the other three... Mal has them defeated, he has what he wants from them, and they pose no further threat. They don't show remorse, but they don't pose a threat. Niska's a sort of special case, because of the torture and the fact that Mal didn't get to finish things with him. Note that I'm guessing there are also certain unpardonable crimes (for instance, killing civilians, as in the unproduced ep Dead or Alive) for which Mal wouldn't let a person live unless he had to.

And then there's Jayne. Which category does he fit into? I'd say that Mal is still assessing that fact, and that's why he's got him in the airlock. But he can't assess that fact unless he talks to Jayne, which is why he gives him the comm. It's my best guess that this was Mal's expected outcome... but by no means certain. Mal was pretty sure he could deal with Jayne... but if Jayne had resolutely stayed in the "still a threat" category by showing no remorse... then, I firmly believe, Mal would have let him die.

Oops, guess I do have an opinion.

Meanwhile, I've got some musings on Jayne's self-image, but this post has gone long enough and that probably belongs in another thread anyway.

____________________________
"You're mean. Firefly's making me reconsider my lifelong devotion to Star Trek." --My mother

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