Ahhh, religion...
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Thursday, April 16, 2026 19:08
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http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/10/15/pkg.can.church.cross
.globaltv?hpt=T2
There's one reason I dislike organized religion. Christ in a pineapple, Mary in a grapefruit...the easily led are so quick to want to "worship" things...it's sad to me.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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Christianity is opposed to the worship of idols... if that is what you are implying. I fail to see what's to hate in the video. It seems the clergy folks of that church aren't ready to jump to conclusions yet, only some pilgrims. I got the general impression this clip was more of a 'hey guys look at this, and here's a little history' than a 'pay your respects to the weeping cross, Jesus Christ commands it!' I saw no evidence that anyone was 'led' to this, those pilgrims led themselves there. The priest didn't even try to convince us, he just gave us a quick history lesson and described the Vatican's process for sussing these things out.
I normally like your post (whether I agree or not) but frankly, that comment seems stupid or manipulative (more worthy of auraptor or kwicko), so I hope I'm misinterpreting.
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I agree with everything you wrote; my comment was not actually about the clip, but about people of faith's tendency to see "god" in irrelevant things, to see "miracles" in the unexplained, to attribute God's influence to other things.
The clip was fine, and realistic, it was just another example for me of religion making people see things that aren't there...and then want to WORSHIP them. I know it's the most uneducated and poorest who generally do this, and I understand why, it's just something at which I shake my head when I hear about it. Nothing more.
You're welcome to judge my comments as stupid; but this one definitely wasn't intended to be manipulative--nor do I think it COULD be. It was just my own musing on the above; every time I hear of these things (I mean, Jesus' face in TOAST?) it reminds me how silly people can be.
You ARE right in that, most of the time, it's not the Church pushing these visions; so I guess it's a reflection of people, not organized religion. I stand corrected. How about "people sure can be dumb sometimes!"?
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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'K, thanks for clarification, and I think the toast things are silly too. I assumed the quote was tied to the clip and that changes the context a mite. Far as seeing God in things, I believe it's possible he sends us signs from time to time and I believe that the miracles that have happened were meant to serve a purpose, not just there.
Jesus didn't just roam around making magic willy nilly in the bible, every miracle is meant to show us something, to teach us something about our faith. When confronted with a possible miracle or sign from God, I don't think the 'is this a miracle' portion is as important as the 'what does this mean to me and what does it show me' part. By that interpretation, my world is pretty shiney 'cause I see miracles all the time! I suppose that was somewhat a tangent... but I guess I was trying to say miracles can happen all the time and those that believe in them don't have to be nutjobs. In my opinion, the stupid comes from people trying to put in specific inflexible terms a religion that was often taught in parables and meant to be... interpreted, for lack of a better word at the moment.
EDIT: Oh, and in the new context I retract the stupid manipulative bit.
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Again I agree with most of what you said, in its intent. My only caveat would be that it doesn't take religion to see miracles everywhere. I see them and note them every day...the miracle of how ANYTHING works, be it a leaf or the human brain, leaves me awestruck. That doesn't mean I believe some entity planned it that way, but neither does that make it any less miraculous.
I guess my bias (and I know it is one) is against people considering "miracles" as coming only from an entity they worship and bestowing that entity with the sole power to do so. JMHO.
Ironically, one of the bases of buddhism is that we try to be aware of every miracle of life every day and pause to think "what does this teach me?". So we're not that far apart in that respect.
And I do believe in Jesus, insofar as I view him as a great figure like Buddha who had tons to teach us and who should rightfully be revered. Just not the son of some "god"...in that respect, I think Muslims have it better, believing Mohammed was a prophet and interpreter of their god, not holy in and of himself.
As to the miracles supposedly performed by Jesus as written, I don't believe in those because they were given to us by men (making their telling open to subjectivity), and men who chose whose account of what happened should be adopted and whose shouldn't be. Just to state my position clearly.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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You remember Jaynestown, don't you? Really, one of the best treatises on religion I've ever seen.
"Ain't about you, Jayne. It's 'bout what they need."
Faith is not about what is true or real. Faith is not about Jesus or God or Allah. Faith is about what we NEED as a people: hope, inspiration, companionship, strength. But mostly hope.
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Faith is not about what is true or real. Faith is not about Jesus or God or Allah. Faith is about what we NEED as a people: hope, inspiration, companionship, strength. But mostly hope.
Not sure if it's exactly what you're driving at, but I take issue with the philosophy that anyone needs faith. To quote Bill Maher (yes, I know he's crazy, but even a broken clock is right on occasion): "Faith is the art of making a virtue out of not thinking."
I agree that, as human beings, without the things you mentioned we would just fall apart. Where I disagree is that, from what I've seen, for every person uplifted and inspired by faith to be better people, there are ten who turn into complete assholes and/or unbelievable morons because of it. Unreasoning, unquestioning, unthinking belief of any kind has wrought more pain, death, destruction and grief than any other single thing in human history.
Tens of millions of people aroud the world, including myself, live happy, healthy, fulfilling lives, all the while outright rejecting faith of any kind.
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Quoth the server,
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Faith is not about what is true or real. Faith is not about Jesus or God or Allah. Faith is about what we NEED as a people: hope, inspiration, companionship, strength. But mostly hope.
Well put Canttakesky. Religion, IMHO, tends to pervert that in the sense that they make it about the object rather than believing in something. Like Shepherd Book said to Mal at Haven "Why do you always assume I'm speaking about God when I talk about belief."
Faith is about pulling 33 men out of a mine shaft.
What we know as God is in that act.
Religion, to me, is hauling yourself off to a building every Sunday (with a bunch of folk you talk behind their back about) forking over your hard-earned to a man dressed to the nines in the latest silky fashion.
You may have a handful who truly believe they are doing God's work, but for the rest it's lip service and grand positioning. There are those who need that community, but it is due to pretense; not faith.
SGG
Tawabawho?
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Another step on his path to be made a Saint.
Riiiight.
Seems pretty innocuous and straight forward to me. A shrine, not getting much attention, one day has a 'miracle' oily substance suddenly appear on a cross, and what do ya know ? Folks start to flock there, bringing all manner of donations, I'm guessin'.
HE truly does work in mysterious ways.
"Ain't about you, Jayne. It's 'bout what they need."
Bingo.
"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reaverman:
Not sure if it's exactly what you're driving at, but I take issue with the philosophy that anyone needs faith. To quote Bill Maher (yes, I know he's crazy, but even a broken clock is right on occasion): "Faith is the art of making a virtue out of not thinking."
Ah, I didn't say people needed FAITH. I said people needed HOPE, inspiration, companionship, strength...mostly hope.
Faith is believing, albeit sometimes erroneously, that hope exists. Faith interprets events in such a way that allows one to maintain whatever belief we need.
You may find faith in a deity to be "non-thinking." But I bet you have faith in other institutions, perhaps say, medical doctors and government--despite evidence that they are not doing their jobs. Maybe you have faith in the IPCC, or vaccines, or seat belts. Whatever it is, I can bring you evidence that those things don't work properly, and you absolutely discount that evidence. We ALL have areas in which evidence don't matter, blind spots as it were, where we store our faith.
One person's interpretation may appear to be quite "not thinking" to another. But make no mistake. We ALL have faith in something. Just in different things.
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