Investigating the Death of 'Agent Dubson'

POSTED BY: TheSomnambulist
UPDATED: Friday, October 15, 2010 23:25
VIEWED: 18428
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GWEK

Monday, October 11, 2010 3:34 AM

Yes, you're correct about the content of "Those Left Behind" (and I agree with your assessment of the impact).

As for Wash not being dead: He's dead and gone. Get over it.

Joss wrote Wash's death in SERENITY.

He and Tudyk have both said in interviews that Wash was always slated to die.

He even approved Wash's wake (as depicted in FLOATOUT).

WASH.

IS.

DEAD.

End of story.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

RAHLMACLAREN

Monday, October 11, 2010 3:40 AM

My point.

And so was Dobson dead at the end of Serenity (pilot).

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Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

GWEK

Monday, October 11, 2010 3:46 AM

Except, clearly, he wasn't.

(If you haven't already, check out THOSE LEFT BEHIND to see how he survived. Incidentally, the miniseries serves as a great season finale and bridge to the movie.)

Appearance isn't everything, but I'll take the word of Joss Whedon for canon here.

Joss has stated that his intention was always to bring Dobson back.

He has also stated that his intention was always to kill off Wash.

As he has supported both of these statements by actually DOING them, I don't think there's much to dispute.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

RAHLMACLAREN

Monday, October 11, 2010 4:29 AM

*digs out my THOSE LEFT BEHIND*

Select to view spoiler:

Fair Warning.

Dobson: "You tried to kill me - you shot my freaking eye out - and dumped me to die.

I might as well have - the Law marked me as dead without so much as a search, and so I decided to stay that way."

Doesn't tell HOW he survived, only that he did.

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

MUTT999

Monday, October 11, 2010 11:03 AM

Mal did kill Dobson, per Joss' script in Firefly The Official Companion Volume One:

'Mal walks in behind Simon...and shoots Dobson in the face. He flies back, letting go of River and dead before he lands.'

Joss brings Dobson back, not so dead, in Those Left Behind Part 2.

PENNAUSAMIKE

Monday, October 11, 2010 1:57 PM

Joss brings back Dobson from a bullet to the head,
(fired from a gun that DROPPED a HORSE in ONE SHOT)
in a story where ANYBODY with a grudge could have been that character.

Joss killed a beloved character to artificially create "peril" and a sense of "realism"
in a fictional world that isn't "real"
(Criminals, who are good guys and beautiful people, commit crimes without repercussions for the innocent
and without getting tossed in jail for years-long sentences).

Both are bad story-telling and both took away from the quality of the 'verse.

I'd also note that I'm surprised ya'll are trying to hold a spoiler-free discussion about a franchise that is 5 to 8 years old.
Be like trying to discuss original Star Trek without saying that Kirk defeated the Gorn...

BRUCEPLUTO

Monday, October 11, 2010 3:04 PM

Ok, guess I’m going to have to break down and spill the beans here….. Joss and I are very close friends. I got a phone call from him just before Serenity the BDM began at the theaters. My ‘ol friend Joss was in a bit of a pickle. He asked if I had any ideas for a sequel. He was a bit distraught after having killed off Wash and Book in Serenity the movie and said if he had to do it over again he wouldn’t have done it.

‘Here’s what you do….” I told him, “So Wash and Book return for Serenity 2!”

“First of all it’s a movie Joss!” I said, “ You can do anything you damn well please! Second, it’s a science fiction movie, and if a 15 year old girl can destroy an army of reavers don’t you think you have the power to bring Wash and Book back?”

“Here’s the set-up!”

“The whole return trip back through reaver territory was made by a Serenity hologram. Mal Wash and the rest of the crew were just vapors of deception. Once they landed on Mr. Universe’s world then Mr. Universe activated his Serenity fake bots (see Lenore) and they put up the best gorram fight on the movie screen that year.”

“After the smoke settled and the dust cleared, and the Alliance went home, the real Serenity left Miranda and broadcast the second verse alert wave because the first had been intercepted by the “ Hands of Blue” guys.”

“ So in retrospect this would have been the sequel to Serenity. Wash, Book and Mr. Universe all alive and well. Joss loved the idea ( He loves happy endings) but as we all know there was no sequel.”

“So this is what happened. I will stake my million dollar yacht on it!”

I’m glad to have cleared up all the crazy speculation…and I think I just ruined my idea for my next fan-fic storyline….BP, out.

BRUCEPLUTO

Monday, October 11, 2010 3:05 PM

PS: Book never went to Haven. He remained on Serenity the whole time.

BP

MOOSE

Monday, October 11, 2010 11:56 PM

Actually, Mal didn't survive Serenity Valley.

The events of Firefly and Serenity are delusions of his dying mind as he lays mortally wounded at the onset of the battle
That's why he can never "leave"...
(Hopefully someone gets the reference...)

I really do hate that Dobson survived.
He got shot through the eye by a gun that killed a horse with one shot. Then he was dumped in the middle of nowhere on a shitty litte moon then there is the possibility of a crashed Reaver ship nearby...I can usually suspend my disbelief, but c'mon!!!

Its like something outta Science Fiction!

STORYMARK

Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pennausamike:
Joss brings back Dobson from a bullet to the head,
(fired from a gun that DROPPED a HORSE in ONE SHOT)
in a story where ANYBODY with a grudge could have been that character.

Joss killed a beloved character to artificially create "peril" and a sense of "realism"
in a fictional world that isn't "real"
(Criminals, who are good guys and beautiful people, commit crimes without repercussions for the innocent
and without getting tossed in jail for years-long sentences).

Both are bad story-telling and both took away from the quality of the 'verse.

I'll agree with the first, it was a bit of sloppy storytelling.

I'll disagree on the second. Found it to be a brilliant storytelling move, even if it hurt many people's feelings.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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