What IS wrong with American TV?
POSTED BY: Ruthie
UPDATED: Monday, August 10, 2026 16:40
VIEWED: 19611
PAGE 5 of 7
Quote:
Originally posted by Misguided By Voices:
That said, the fact remains that in recent years, despite this so called slide in TV quality, we are receiving some of the best shows ever written - yes you have to search for them more, but the cream at the top is pretty darn good.
My belief is that it is "so good" because we only have crap to compare it to. But, when I think back to yester-year, what is on now pales in comparison. Plus what decent shows that are on now aren't being repaced when they end there run
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by CGRealms:
There's no arguing taste, but I'm curious as to just what's pathetic about the first. And if "Joan..." forces a point of view, what point of view is it, exactly?
Your first question:
Same old tired family show plot. I've seen it again and again and it's become quite tiresome. If you're into that thing great, but as is clear, I am not.
Your second question:
That God is great and has a plan, etc, etc, etc. I will admit that it is an interesting twist on an old line, but in the end not for me.
< rant >
And on a side note, I have issues with this resurgence of "faith" (read christian faith) having to be in our daily lives whether we want it there or not. I thought that we had grown beyond this, but clearly I am wrong. It rather irritates me when I see it where ever I go. Not all of us are christian and some of us take offense to these side-walk preachers, etc. shoving it in our face where ever we go. It's called multiculturalism, let's respect.
< /rant >
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Since family is such a predominant theme in our society, I think it a relevant focus to come back to. And in at least the first season, the idea of family was handled more realistically and unflinchingly than any show I've seen in a while. There wasn't any high-concept window dressing but it didn't need it because the emotional core and the writing were so solid.
Same old tired family show plot. I've seen it again and again and it's become quite tiresome. If you're into that thing great, but as is clear, I am not
Quote:This, to me, belies ignorance of the show. I've never seen an episode where "God is great." At times, God puts Joan through absolute hell. Sometimes she understands the reasons and sometimes she doesn't. It is a show that is much more complicated that mere preaching, and though it may be heresy to say, handled the genre in a more consistently satisfying way that "Wonderfalls" did.
That God is great and has a plan, etc, etc, etc. I will admit that it is an interesting twist on an old line, but in the end not for me.
Quote:Woah. I don't know where you live, but I haven't seen side-walk preachers in a long time. As for "faith" making a resurgance, well multiculturalism runs both ways. BTW, the God of Joan's world isn't necessarily the Christian God. It's left purposefully vague, and while Joan has sought advice from both a Catholic priest and her friend's Rabbi father it is usually from other less ethereal sources that she finds what wisdom she's looking for.
And on a side note, I have issues with this resurgence of "faith" (read christian faith) having to be in our daily lives whether we want it there or not. I thought that we had grown beyond this, but clearly I am wrong. It rather irritates me when I see it where ever I go. Not all of us are christian and some of us take offense to these side-walk preachers, etc. shoving it in our face where ever we go. It's called multiculturalism, let's respect.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by CGRealms:
Since family is such a predominant theme in our society, I think it a relevant focus to come back to.
My problem is the sheer number of these types of shows. Enough is enough! I've been saturated with this stuff for years and I want something different. Firefly gave me something new and that's one of the major reasons why I got into it and have joined this community, etc. But, this family show has been over done to the extreme, IMO anyway.
Quote:
Originally posted by CGRealms:
I've never seen an episode where "God is great."...
I'll say it again, subtlety.
Quote:
Originally posted by CGRealms:
Woah. I don't know where you live, but I haven't seen side-walk preachers in a long time. As for "faith" making a resurgance, well multiculturalism runs both ways.
Really, I'd like to know when you have seen someone of the Jewish, Wiccan, Buddist, etc faith try to convert someone who didn't explicitly start that conversation. Because, when I turn on my TV I only see televangalists (spelling?) on that are from some form of christanity.
Quote:
Originally posted by CGRealms:
BTW, the God of Joan's world isn't necessarily the Christian God. It's left purposefully vague, and while Joan has sought advice from both a Catholic priest and her friend's Rabbi father it is usually from other less ethereal sources that she finds what wisdom she's looking for.
Wisdom can't be explained, it can only be accomplished. You may get adivce from someone, but it is you yourself that must in the end walk that path to aquire wisdom.
She gets advice from these people (if you follow history, same god) and then has to figure it out herself. No growth comes otherwise.
And you're going to have to explain about the vagueness to me. I just don't see it.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
My belief is that it is "so good" because we only have crap to compare it to. But, when I think back to yester-year, what is on now pales in comparison. Plus what decent shows that are on now aren't being repaced when they end there run
I'd be willing to bet at least a fairly small sum of fake money that if you went back to "yester-year" and picked out a TV Guide for the evening that one of the "decent" shows was on, you would find it surrounded by a sea of crap on almost all sides.
"I threw up on your bed"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:You don't think "Firefly" is a family show? Hell, the premise for "Firefly" may be a heck alot more out there, but I'm attracted to both shows for the same reason. There are a bunch of disparate personalities brought together into close proximity, and they live with each other to roughly the same degree of success as we do. Compare this with a "family" show like "7th Heaven" which is a bunch of cliches and cardboard cutout archtypes thrown into a blender with zero finesse. Sure, there have been a staggering number of family shows. But few so skilled and nuanced with the execution.
Firefly gave me something new and that's one of the major reasons why I got into it and have joined this community, etc. But, this family show has been over done to the extreme, IMO anyway.
Quote:That's judging a group by its worst apples. I'd hardly call televangalists representative of Chistianity (or the priests that have molested children for that matter). Televangalists are motivated by greed, not faith. And Christianity is certainly not the only religion that has radical segments. Look at the most orthodox of Jews that withdraw from secular society because it doesn't meet their higher expectations. Hell, look at the radical Muslims that topple skyscrapers and blow themselves up in public streets. Should Judaism and Islam be blamed for such tresspasses?
Because, when I turn on my TV I only see televangalists (spelling?) on that are from some form of christanity.
Quote:Have I said otherwise? Look at what you've quoted. I said she has sought advice from the various religious figures but found wisdom elsewhere. Is this not what you too are stating?
Wisdom can't be explained, it can only be accomplished. You may get adivce from someone, but it is you yourself that must in the end walk that path to aquire wisdom.
Quote:That's certainly the show's philosophy.
She gets advice from these people (if you follow history, same god) and then has to figure it out herself. No growth comes otherwise.
Quote:A higher being that takes a multitude of forms talks to Joan and tells her to do things. Not why and not how. She attempts to do them to varying degrees and meets various degrees of success. Sometimes the reason becomes obvious sometimes it doesn't. But there's never a "Hi! I'm God and this is what you should think" moment.
And you're going to have to explain about the vagueness to me. I just don't see it.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Misguided By Voices:
I'd be willing to bet at least a fairly small sum of fake money that if you went back to "yester-year" and picked out a TV Guide for the evening that one of the "decent" shows was on, you would find it surrounded by a sea of crap on almost all sides.
When I was young till up to only just 2-5 yrs ago (this is where I beleive the down fall, at least for me, happened), I had a show to watch almost every night of the week. Now I'm down to re-runs. You be the judge.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
*sigh* You miss my point.
Firefly is *not* a family show. Family shows don't have people getting shot and people being moraly ambiguous to the extreme that we do have in Firefly (ie Jayne in Ariel, Heart of Gold, etc).
You compare apples and organes. You can *not* make a comparison between televangalists and suicide bombers implied or otherwise, intended or not. Be careful in the words that you choose as logical fallicies abound.
And because you missed it, I was talking about people preaching and who exactly they are. And you still haven't answered that question. This was clear by what I wrote and what I quoted from you.
And perhaps you should watch the show and listen to how many times they say the word god in it. And in this society you can hardly say that word without invoking the christian idea of god. You say it remains vague, but in this society it is anything but. Many things can be explained perfectly without words, which is the case here.
Joan herself has said (paraphrased) "You say you give me a choice but in the end I don't have one".
The rest of your points I will not comment on as it's past 1:00am here and I have no need to waste anymore energy on this. I now sign off this thread as it's become a debate about a show that I don't like, and what is the fun in that.
So, when it comes to this sort of thing, you stay on your side and I'll stay on mine. Neither will convice the other one because you like it for certain reasons and I hate it for certain reasons. Since these reasons are nothing but opinion this is a waste of my time, which is quite short now adays.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Good ones do. Family shows are about families in my book. Part of what I like about Everwood is that, aside from a lack of general shooting people, the moral lines blur time and again. The characters are similiarly flawed.
Firefly is *not* a family show. Family shows don't have people getting shot and people being moraly ambiguous to the extreme that we do have in Firefly (ie Jayne in Ariel, Heart of Gold, etc).
Quote:Interesting. You make a point to complain specifically about Christianity and it's intrusion into your daily life. I pointed out that Christianity is not the only faith that has had radical members that intrude into their daily lives. And I don't know about you, but terrorists have been far more intrusive in my life than televangelists.
You compare apples and organes. You can *not* make a comparison between televangalists and suicide bombers implied or otherwise, intended or not. Be careful in the words that you choose as logical fallicies abound.
Quote:Yes, it's clear that you want to limit the scope of the discussion to a safe realm from your idealogical standpoint. You're free to your views, and I'm not a big fan of televangelists either. But your initial argument was that Christianity is the only religion that pushes its faith on others. I was countering that that's simply not so. Terrorists attempt to destroy opposing religious/cultural viewpoints. Televangelists try to convert opposing religious/cultural viewpoints to their own. It's not a discussion if you open it with "And on a side note, I have issues with this resurgence of "faith" (read christian faith) having to be in our daily lives whether we want it there or not. I thought that we had grown beyond this, but clearly I am wrong." And then call foul when I explore the full implications of that statement. There is religious intolerance from all colors of the spectrum, and singling out specific religion from the pack isn't fair. You only narrowed the conversation to people converting in your second post on the matter. For what it's worth, I agree that the only organized conversion drives I know of are Christian. But I still contend that they are not representative of mainstream Christianity.
And because you missed it, I was talking about people preaching and who exactly they are. And you still haven't answered that question. This was clear by what I wrote and what I quoted from you.
Quote:You're casting your own baggage about what God means on to the show. Just because you feel that "you can hardly say that word without invoking the christian idea of god" doesn't make it so. Since the show hasn't thus far endorsed any religion as the one true faith, it's a moot point.
And perhaps you should watch the show and listen to how many times they say the word god in it. And in this society you can hardly say that word without invoking the christian idea of god.
Quote:You put up a straw-man argument. As long as you can't see the difference between the word God and the Christian God, it is impossible to counter. There's a fundamental difference. If you're judging a show by your own insight into the word "God" then how can I argue based on the content in the show itself?
You say it remains vague, but in this society it is anything but. Many things can be explained perfectly without words, which is the case here.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Drat. I'm sorry I didn't get in on this discussion before it became a 'Family Values' debate. Hopefully folks are still following this and one of them can answer my question.
Earlier on there was a lot of mention of Canadian television. I'm an American, and I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't even realize Canada made their own television. In my defense, I've been to Canada three times and the only shows I found on my hotel TV were American-- but I might not have been looking for Canadian-produced TV.
ANYWAY, I'm a big fan of BBC America, and I was really pissed off when the USA tried to re-make Coupling and failed so badly. I'd like to think of myself as fairly wordly in my TV viewing and I'd hate to think that there are decent shows being produced just over the border that I am missing.
So, if any of my Canadian neighbors are still reading this, could you please post a list of Canadian TV shows that I should look for? I'll do my best to experience as many as I can.
I'm so ashamed 
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME