'I go to bed at night...

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, September 25, 2010 19:49
VIEWED: 13333
PAGE 9 of 11

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I have often thought that Islam could benefit from a reformation of some kind. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that's the sort of thing one can wish into being from the outside. It seems to me it's also the sort of thing that is constantly in danger of collapsing as long as pre-reformation materials are incorporated into the belief system.

Even in the Christian faith, the presense of antiquated practices that make some respond with loathing cause others to respond with yearning. Supposedly, Jesus Christ came to jettison the old way of doing things to a large degree. Despite this, I find many Christians lovingly cleaving to ideas present in the Old Testament that allow them to discriminate against and mistreat their fellow man.

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Here's the thing, to my view the reformation didn't modernise, tame or castrate christianity - it moved the faith closer to the essence of its holy texts, challenging the corruption and heresy (at that time) of the Catholic church, and its authority in general (encouraging the scripturally correct principle that every christian can relate to God without the mediation of a priest - 1 Peter 2:9).

So with regards to an Islamic reformation: it would arguably be a movement back towards the sacred Islamic texts. I'm not completely sure what that would look like but I'm not positive it'd be good. Some might even argue that Islam's current resurgence along more radical lines is its 'reformation'.

E.g. on the subject of the practice of women wearing headscarves:

See this video of Nasser's funeral in Cairo in 1967; when you can make out the women few (if any?) are wearing headscarves:

Compare it to this modern video, a walk down a Cairo street where most women are wearing them:

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Hello,

Perhaps we should be wishing for a deformation, then? ;-)

While we share the opinion of what the reformation was for Christianity, its significance to us varies.

In my opinion, by removing the unique position that the Church had in standing between man and God, it cut the proverbial balls off of the church and allowed government to take shape without as much religious interference.

THAT was critical in forming truly secular governance. Overthrowing and diminishing monarchies was the next step in advancing the cause of the individual.

--Anthony



Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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It's interesting to hear that maintaining a Christian Heritage may be a goal of the EU. I hadn't heard that before.

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Yeah, I suppose it needn't necessarily be described in those terms (and not that many Europeans would choose to). 'Christian' heritage is more how I personally see it: in that Christianity has undoubtedly shaped Western society and values. Also it's a neat/easy way to outline Europe's eastern borders.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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In my opinion, by removing the unique position that the Church had in standing between man and God, it cut the proverbial balls off of the church and allowed government to take shape without as much religious interference.

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No, I agree: but I think a centralised, politically powerful religious institution (ie. the papacy) was never what Christianity was meant to be about. Of course it did happen, and was the only practiced Christianity for hundreds of years - I just view that as a natural human trend of people in power viewing religion as a potential tool to control populations, or whatever. So yes it cut the balls off the Catholic church of the time, and ensured a healthy distance between church and state - all the while going back to the essence of christianity.

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Perhaps we should be wishing for a deformation, then? ;-)

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Hmm, I've just been looking into it more (head scarves), and I think it's pretty open to interpretation actually. From this Muslim site advocating head scarves - http://en.rafed.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1126:
quranic-verses-about-hijab&catid=143:hijab&Itemid=996 - the verses it cites are:

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So what do the Quran and Sunna have to say about women’s dress ?

“O you Children of Adam! We have bestowed on you raiment to cover your shame as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition.” (Quran 7:26)

“And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their sons, their husbands’ sons, their brothers, or their brothers’ sons or their sisters’ sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.” (Quran 24:31).

“O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 33:59)

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Which is pretty non-specific to me; I'm inclined to see it as firstly a (obvious) command to cover up sexual parts to all except relatives, and secondly, a general call to modesty. But apparently it depends on interpretation of the word 'ornaments' - which some interpret as referring to everything including eyes. The line that does it for me however:

"...that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof..."

"ordinarily appear therof" seems to mean ordinary, practical, non-sexual parts of the body: hands, face, arms, legs even...(if a woman wants to wear modest skirts)? It's hard to view a burqa being 'ordinary' in any way...

It's not personal. It's just war.

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I think a return to original Muslim beliefs would be a good thing...it's been prostituted for the agenda of the mullahs and political terrorists, which actual act in ways directly opposite to Mohmmed's teachings. They "preach" something distinctly different from what Islam was in the beginning and was intended to be...just as Christianity has done at times and I'm sure other religions as well.

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I think a centralised, politically powerful religious institution (ie. the papacy) was never what Christianity was meant to be about.

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Nor was Islam intended to be ruled the way it is and was by mullahs, but power will out, in any religion.

If people abided by true Islam, it would be a whole different story. And yes, the full chadri in particular actually BEGAN I believe in Afghanistan, as a way for shah's to keep their women from being coveted...then became fashion among the upper classes, as away you go. The mullahs have always used it as a way to control women.

As to the burka/chacri/purdah, its interpretation has been polluted over time:

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Many Muslims believe that the Islamic holy book, the Qur'an, and the collected traditions of the life of Muhammed, or hadith, require both men and women to dress and behave modestly in public. However, this requirement, called hijab, has been interpreted in many different ways by Islamic scholars (ulema) and Muslim communities.

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The idea of the veil actually predates Islam:

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There is evidence that this type of dress was worn by some Arab and Persian women long before Islam. For example, the Roman African Christian Tertullian, writing in Chapter 17 of The Veiling of Virgins around 200 AD, praises the modesty of those "pagan women of Arabia" who "not only cover their head, but their whole face...preferring to enjoy half the light with one eye rather than prostituting their whole face." Strabo, writing in the first century AD, also refers to covering the face as a practice of some Persian women.

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Best of all, as far as I'm concerned, would be doing away with religions entirely, or at the very least, minimizing their control of the population as much as humanly possible. I'm not sure whether more deaths have resulted from nationalism of religion, but I'd put my money on the latter. And it's not the religion's fault, it's how it's interpreted, used and abused by those who want to gain power, or in some cases, interpret it subjectively to match what THEY believe.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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