Wash in "I, Robot"

POSTED BY: Lucretia
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 15:06
VIEWED: 12324
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CLICHEMOMMA

Tuesday, July 20, 2004 1:54 PM

I agree, anything with Alan Tudyk in it is worth watching. I, too, can hear Alan's voice and see his facial expressions in 'Sonny's' face. He also has beautiful blue eyes, just like Sonny. I loved Alan's performance and thought every scene w/Sonny (Alan)in it, beit with Will Smith or Bridget Moynahan, gave "I, Robot" more warmth and meaning. Alan gave Sonny soul!

I'm remedial when it comes to computers; but, I think this will take you to a great featurette giving some insight into how they filmed/created Sonny from Alan's performance (in his lime green unitard). Check out www.apple.com/trailers/fox/i_robot/sonnyfeaturette/

I would recommend anyone go see the movie before they start bashing it. Some of the trailers didn't do it justice - it's a much better movie than you might think. I've seen it three times and it just gets better every time!

clichemomma

JAKE7

Tuesday, July 20, 2004 4:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by clichemomma:
...Alan gave Sonny soul!

Well said! Alan's performance was fantastic! I had to remind myself that this was the same person who played Wash, which was fun for me, anyway!

Quote:
Check out www.apple.com/trailers/fox/i_robot/sonnyfeaturette/

This featurette is excellent! Thanks for posting the link!!

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MAL: Everybody's makin' a fuss.

MAUGWAI

Tuesday, July 20, 2004 4:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
In closing, I highly recommend the film to discerning fans of the genre. It exceeds any sci-fi I've seen since the original "Matrix", and since the director's cut of "Bladerunner" before that. To those who are easily distracted from plot, story and subtext by action sequences, special effects and star performances: you might not enjoy the movie as much as I did; the candy may spoil your appetite. To the latter, I recommend "Spiderman 2" instead, which I felt was as good or better than the initial installment, although a SpideyFan friend of mine said he was disappointed they revealed his secret identity so thoroughly. S2 is more of a romp, and is less of a 'think about it' entertainment than I,R.

Wow, I thought the complete opposite. I mean, I agree that S2 was good, but I found a lot more worth exploring at the end. I came out of that movie with all kinds of ideas on the meaning of everything that happened and the motives behind each character's decisions.

I liked I, Robot as entertainment, but I didn't feel like the subtext was anything new. Anything I would have analyzed in the film I analyzed already in A.I., The Matrix, Terminator 2, and Bicentennial Man. Even Star Trek dealt with robots trying to be more human. I didn't think this film added much in the "think about it" area.

The trust issue was one thing that made this different. But not different enough to consider it really deep.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

FOXTROTXRAY

Tuesday, July 20, 2004 5:36 PM

Hmm.. I must be weird.

I liked it a great deal better than Spiderman 2.
(Which I enjoyed a lot)

I've never actually gotten around to reading Asimov, but I'm quite pleased to see so many here who have.

Many people I've spoken to had never even HEARD of Asimov.

ZOID

Tuesday, July 20, 2004 10:04 PM

maugwai wrote:

Quote:
Wow, I thought the complete opposite. I mean, I agree that S2 was good, but I found a lot more worth exploring at the end. I came out of that movie with all kinds of ideas on the meaning of everything that happened and the motives behind each character's decisions.

I liked I, Robot as entertainment, but I didn't feel like the subtext was anything new. Anything I would have analyzed in the film I analyzed already in A.I., The Matrix, Terminator 2, and Bicentennial Man. Even Star Trek dealt with robots trying to be more human. I didn't think this film added much in the "think about it" area.

The trust issue was one thing that made this different. But not different enough to consider it really deep.

Excellent, thoughtful response. As I said, S2 was a very good film. I thought it was better than the first installment, and certainly not a pale imitation of the original, as so many sequels tend to be these days *cough*Matrix sequels*choke*. However, there were no hidden meanings, no unexplored motivations left to ponder at the end of the movie for me.

Please don't misunderstand. I felt the characters were well-rounded and justified (better than Dr. Susan Calvin was in I,R, as I pointed out previously). Even the villains in S2 are so well-drawn as to be sympathetic. But, we see everything there is to see during the movie; there is no impulse to discuss those characters to the depths we do our BDH's, for instance. What you see is what you get with S2: Peter is conflicted, sure, but it ends there. His dilemma and his personality are 3-dimensional; but real life is infinitely complex, never as simple as a 3-dimensional character's conflicts.

S2 is a very good, 'relax and enjoy the ride' movie. I and a carload of kids saw it at the drive-in, and we all loved it, for differing reasons. The characterizations and dialog, action sequences and SFX were consistently superb and served the story, rather than vice-versa.

The same can be said of I,R, although to a lesser extent regarding characterization and dialog -- with one crucial exception: Sonny. Sonny is something different from other robots we have seen in film. He is not Artificial Intelligence; there is nothing 'artificial' about his soul. He is not human, or some imitation of human intelligence; he is clearly a machine, yet possessive of self-awareness. He is a Creation (of Dr. Lanning), with his own unique soul and intelligence. He is not the same as us, and not the same as the other mechanical arbiters in his world.

Furthermore, he is not the same as other robotic or artificial intelligences we have seen in movies; but, Sonny does nearly approach Asimov's own self-aware robots (R. Daneel Olivaw being my favorite, while R. Giskard Reventlov may actually be the more deeply soulful of the two) in a way that no other movie 'AI' has achieved. Allow me a brief exposition in response to each of the movies you mentioned...

In "The Matrix", the AI is a menacing, evil hive mind. I have always rejected the notion that computer-based intelligence will come to the conclusion that humans are a parasitic infestation that needs extermination or control. If humans met another Intelligence, would we want to exterminate it? Perhaps. But, if that were the case, it is almost certainly a matter of the circumstances of our physiological evolution. We have 'competition' -- and a lot of other distasteful behaviors -- hardwired into the lower segments of our brains. Just add alcohol to experience these 'animal brains' more directly.

True 'free will' mechanistic intelligence will not suffer from anachronistic animal behaviors like competitive drives, the sense of 'otherness', jealousy or territoriality. "The Matrix", while a top sci-fi movie, does so in spite of its maleficent AI, not because of it. I liked the first Matrix movie for its ingenious "Alice in Wonderland" references, and for its exploration of the nature of Reality and our perception of the same. It was very much li

MAUGWAI

Tuesday, July 20, 2004 10:38 PM

Interesting. Perhaps there's more here than I thought.

What follows is my very spoilery continuation of that thought.

Select to view spoiler:

The only thing about that whole free-will thing with Sonny is, he was designed to be that way. He was programed to be an independent thinker. He even decides that this is his purpose and he must protect humans. So in a way, he is not as original as Vikki, who is the only robot in the story who truly makes a decision for herself. She analyzed everything she learned and came to an unexpected conclusion. So it's interesting to me that they destroy the only robot to exhibit truly human characteristics without it being in her programming. Of course, they had to, but still.

Guess I should have gone to see the movie with Zoid. Analyzing movies is one of my favorite pastimes.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

ZOID

Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:20 AM

maugwai wrote:

Quote:
...Analyzing movies is one of my favorite pastimes.

Mine too. Of course, in order to engage in the pastime, one must have fiction that engenders speculation. In the visual media, this quality is exceedingly rare.

In the original Matrix, one could argue convincingly that Neo's awakening to the 'real world' is in fact nothing more than a psychotic break into a schizophrenic delusion, the likes of which is not uncommonly found in mental hospitals and 'skid rows' around the world. The duality in that first movie, the uncertainty over what is real and what is an illusion is so pervasive that one cannot make definitive statements. The second and third episodes in the Matrix saga were totally devoid of this aspect, and so had none of the magic of the first film, for me. They were good action flicks with innovative SFX and that is all.

To bring this all home, Firefly had that magic in its TV incarnation. With the blessings of the cinematic gods (fickle creatures that they are), so will Serenity. "I, Robot" has the magic too, but I suspect it might take a true sci-fi fan's eye to see it past the whiz-bang and Will Smith's big-star persona. I suspect the movie will do very favorably in DVD sales, and that repeat viewings will eventually reveal the true story under the big production.

That's not meant as a knock on the film, though I know it sounds like one. I can't think of a single cut I'd have made that would have made the 'real' story easier to grasp. Smith's character had to be motivated as it was in order to be a proper foil for Sonny. The rest makes sense too from this viewpoint, but you'll just have to reexamine it for yourself; I can't prove the point without ruining a film that's been out less than a week. Talk to me again after the DVD's been out for a couple months or so...

But I have no doubts we could speculate on Sonny -- convincingly and contrarily -- until the cows come home (or the sequel comes out).

And now, a response to your spoiler:

Select to view spoiler:

Actually, Sonny wasn't programmed to have independent thought. He was different from the other robots and V.I.K.I. in that he wasn't constrained by the Three Laws. Lanning saw that the Three Laws would eventually lead to the conclusion that humanity must be protected from itself.

This resonates with the type of restrictive thinking found in some fundamentalist religions. Those who are bound in their thought too tightly by a small set of laws may find themselves in the unenviable position of subduing others in the name of doing what's best for them...

Sonny wasn't programmed, he was set free of the moral restrictions that led to V.I.K.I.'s flawed conclusion. It occurred to me that Sonny was Lanning's answer to the Matrix.

Party on...

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 275 days, 4 hours, 47 minutes, and 27 seconds left until The BDM!

CYBERSNARK

Wednesday, July 21, 2004 2:07 AM

To Zoid's list of film AIs, I'd like to add Andromeda from the (early) TV series of the same name.

See, unlike Data (the other Roddenberrian AI), Rommie doesn't want to be human. She's proud, confident, and unapologetic about her nature --her "race." How does she compare to Sonny? Well, she doesn't really, except that she is (psychologically, if not personality-wise) what Sonny could be at the "end" of his evolution.

Also: A while ago, I came across a thread advising folks to link to and I, Robot reviews they came across. Well, I just posted my own informal (and embarassingly uninsightful) mini-review in my alternat ID over on XWA.net, and am too lazy to find the right thread, so:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=132240

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

MAUGWAI

Wednesday, July 21, 2004 9:37 PM

Quote:
Cybersnark wrote:
Tuesday, July 20, 2004 16:07
To Zoid's list of film AIs

I would like it noted for the record, that was originally my list of AIs. I want my credit!

I wish I understood Andromeda, but I never catch an episode at the beginning. Every time I see it, it's already fifteen minutes in and I am lost. I do know that chick is married to Michale Shanks and had his baby.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

WILDHEAVENFARM

Wednesday, December 15, 2004 3:38 AM

Well, I just wastched it and I must say "well cast", at least as it pertains to AT. The rest of the movie can go bollucks.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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