Seeing so many hate proud white people...What is Racism
POSTED BY: kaneman
UPDATED: Saturday, September 4, 2010 16:43
VIEWED: 7037
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Damned straight...that's at least half the problem. "Our forefathers", "my ancestors"--all the things we take credit for because we were born in this particular longitude and latitude, kinda make me sick. I take pride in what the hippies did and what we tried to do, but I was there DOING it...people who take pride in what their ancestors did leaves my eyes crossed.
That's a little harsh. Are we not supposed to have pride in knowing our own personal family history and in whatever culture we have managed to hold on to? There's good and bad in all of our histories, but there's nothing wrong with being grateful for your ancestors for allowing you to be here today. This is a strange statement.
I imagine a number of Latinos, and Asian Americans, and Native Americans would look at YOU cross eyed for not honoring your ancestors. Even if you don't go as far as they do and believe your ancestors can influence your life from beyond the veil or whatever, there is comfort in knowing who you are and what you came from, it's a comfort I begrudge no one, white or persons of colour.
My ancestors fought with the Jacobites in the Battle of Culloden. I've visited their mass grave site where some of my distant relatives were slaughtered to the man, and sometimes even to the women and children by the Butcher of York. Then after about a half century of economic troubles and British oppression, one of them listened to a crazy man and decided to make the long journey from Scotland to the new world for their own promised land. It's a stubbornness and a pioneering spirit I'm not ashamed of.
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Byte, isn't it a bit like taking pride in inherited wealth?
Anyway, I curse my ancestors for ensuring that I could be here today. I am, however, delighted that my ancestors killed Jesus.
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What inherited wealth? They blew all their money to come here, and took every advantage of the Homestead Act. They didn't have it as bad as racial minority groups, but being a religious minority was no picnic either. Even if they kindasorta brought that on themselves, but I digress.
Nah, I just have a rich history and culture that I happen to be aware of.
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Yeah, the inherited-wealth thing occurred to me as I was writing the post...to me, it's about the same thing. I can be proud of the American people, or an individual or something, or even my country, but I don't feel any pride in what those who bore me or who bore them "did". JMHO.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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I find it a little sad that you had to go out and FIND a new culture for yourself, Niki. There's something colorful and important in your makeup that you've lost/forgotten/given up.
This kind of disconnect to people's own family history is what makes mainstream white American culture so vacant, people have to make up subcultures to join so they can fill the hole. :( Assimilate and all will be well. No wonder the mainstream stresses fitting in to the expense of everything else; people in the mainstream don't have anything else to fall back on. Like you're an island in time, and nothing before you has any influence on you, like you feel like you didn't NEED anyone else to bring you where you are today.
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Originally posted by Bytemite:Quote:
Damned straight...that's at least half the problem. "Our forefathers", "my ancestors"--all the things we take credit for because we were born in this particular longitude and latitude, kinda make me sick. I take pride in what the hippies did and what we tried to do, but I was there DOING it...people who take pride in what their ancestors did leaves my eyes crossed.
That's a little harsh. Are we not supposed to have pride in knowing our own personal family history and in whatever culture we have managed to hold on to? There's good and bad in all of our histories, but there's nothing wrong with being grateful for your ancestors for allowing you to be here today. This is a strange statement.
I imagine a number of Latinos, and Asian Americans, and Native Americans would look at YOU cross eyed for not honoring your ancestors. Even if you don't go as far as they do and believe your ancestors can influence your life from beyond the veil or whatever, there is comfort in knowing who you are and what you came from, it's a comfort I begrudge no one, white or persons of colour.
My ancestors fought with the Jacobites in the Battle of Culloden. I've visited their mass grave site where some of my distant relatives were slaughtered to the man, and sometimes even to the women and children by the Butcher of York. Then after about a half century of economic troubles and British oppression, one of them listened to a crazy man and decided to make the long journey from Scotland to the new world for their own promised land. It's a stubbornness and a pioneering spirit I'm not ashamed of.
Where is the love for those who made this Longitude and latitude so damned "in demand" ya know the constitution and white men? Why would you be ashamed of what we are, sure we've had slavery, sure we've discrimanated against women, sure we have allowed our government to carve us into groups, however we live together and have the same fight "the little people against the big" , and have corrected our wrongs(see....linclon, civil rights votes(Republican)
... and we are winning. the "put us into groups and control us types" are going BYE BYE...we are all freemen regaudless of color, creed, or religion....If whitemen win(which is inevitable) unless the asians win. That the same group that voted against civil rights(in our parents life times) swares to enslave them with welfare and freebee's is hilarious......Or does it prove they(blacks) cannot compete with whites on an even playing field...nice message.
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Byte, you can't give up what you never had. I have no "culture". My mom was an immigrant with her mom and grandmother; there's nobody on that side of the family that I ever knew. My dad came from New York and rarely spoke, much less told me about his family, and there were no members of his family we were ever in contact with.
Don't pity me, heavens no. I've been lucky to lead a rich life with experiences some others have never had; I've looked back, and I couldn't ask for more.
So I didn't have to "find" a subculture, as I didn't have a culture to begin with--except the general culture of America, which I'm quite happy with where most things are concerned. I left home at 16. I never considered being a hippie a "culture"--if I did, then I had several, like folkdancing, Renaissance Faire, etc...in all those I had friends who shared things in common with me, but we didn't consider it a "culture."
Aside from which, you're misunderstanding me. I have nothing against individuals honoring their ancestors or their culture; my argument is only about TAKING CREDIT for what those before them did. Just like inherited wealth; what the generation before us did, we can be grateful for, but I don't see taking "pride" in things I didn't do myself...that just seems false to me. Your mileage may very well vary.
So let me be very clear: I find nothing wrong with hooring, loving, being grateful to or anything ELSE when it comes to a person's ancestors; my only dislike is the idea of taking CREDIT for what they did. Is that clearer?
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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(Crossposted with Niki) 
I hope the obvious confusion about pride in one's heritage has more to do with the poverty of our English language than the awkward contempt for the past seemingly on display here. Granted, the pride one has in one's bloodline, one's culture, isn't exactly the same sort of pride one has in one's own accomplishments. Kinda the way loving one's self and loving another person are expressed in different ways. There are different kinds, different modalities, of pride.
But it's not all that different, really. Pride in one's heritage is entirely consistent with pride in one's self, in that it's part of what makes each of us who and what we are. Our past, our blood, our families are an unchanging part of who and what we are today and going forward. What inspired our forebears, can inspire us. Western culture tends to er on the side of alienation, no more so than in this peculiar arrogance Bytemite's talking about.
I'm grateful for my heritage, I'm proud to be a consequence of the greatness that came before me, and the struggles and the hardships my forebears suffered. Why did they go through the pain and suffering if not to give me a chance to exist, to live, to carry on? They lived in hope of me, just as I live in hope of my cultural descendents. All people do this, consciously or not, it's innate.
If I am proud of myself, mustn't I give some credit for who I am to who they were? And if they are indeed my family, am I wrong to be proud of them for this?
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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So let me be very clear: I find nothing wrong with honoring, loving, being grateful to or anything ELSE when it comes to a person's ancestors; my only dislike is the idea of taking CREDIT for what they did. Is that clearer?
Understood.
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So I didn't have to "find" a subculture, as I didn't have a culture to begin with--except the general culture of America, which I'm quite happy with where most things are concerned. I left home at 16. I never considered being a hippie a "culture"--if I did, then I had several, like folkdancing, Renaissance Faire, etc...in all those I had friends who shared things in common with me, but we didn't consider it a "culture."
I actually do consider those cultures, in that you probably develop a sense of community when you're around those people.
Don't get me wrong, it's not false or bad to identify yourself with a group and feel like you belong. It's an essential part of human nature. >_> My wariness stems from the fact that removal of family culture is something intentional and systematic, and that some of these invented cultures are intentionally pit against each other.
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Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Byte, isn't it a bit like taking pride in inherited wealth?
Anyway, I curse my ancestors for ensuring that I could be here today. I am, however, delighted that my ancestors killed Jesus.
It was the only way they could shut him the fuck up!
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Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.
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