Not so shiny: Plenty of drama for Buffy creator Joss Whedon

POSTED BY: HAKEN
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 17:48
VIEWED: 7752
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STORYMARK

Monday, August 30, 2010 5:22 PM

So, would you base that on stuff like Avatar (or Alice in Wonderland, the second high grosser of the past year) being so grounded in reality, or because general audiences didn't turn out for them...?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

ZEEK

Monday, August 30, 2010 6:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
So, would you base that on stuff like Avatar (or Alice in Wonderland, the second high grosser of the past year) being so grounded in reality, or because general audiences didn't turn out for them...?

One's a scifi and one's a classic. How do they even compare?

I'd say X-men are a far better example of a big superhero fantasy team up movie. They did fairly well for themselves but not record breaking amazement. They also tried to keep things grounded somewhat and not go into space with the phoenix saga. It's a tight rope act.

STORYMARK

Monday, August 30, 2010 7:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
So, would you base that on stuff like Avatar (or Alice in Wonderland, the second high grosser of the past year) being so grounded in reality, or because general audiences didn't turn out for them...?

One's a scifi and one's a classic. How do they even compare?

They don't really - which helps my point even more. Two wildly different films, which make no effort at being grounded in reality, yet are massively successful and popular with general audiences.

Have a look at the list of highest grossing films ever. Very few make any attempt at reflecting reality. Some even mix space and magic.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

BYTEMITE

Monday, August 30, 2010 7:11 PM

Boris: You Australians, you guys are my kind of people. We need to have drinks or something. :D

Virtual cheers for now.

CYBERSNARK

Monday, August 30, 2010 7:12 PM

I think Avengers will inevitably have a big opening week (because of RDJ and Joss' respective fans if nothing else --and who knows, Thor and Cap may end up just as big). It's the second week (when the marketing stops and word-of-mouth/repeat viewers take over) that's the important one, and I have every confidence in Joss's ability to bring people in.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

ZEEK

Monday, August 30, 2010 8:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
They don't really - which helps my point even more. Two wildly different films, which make no effort at being grounded in reality, yet are massively successful and popular with general audiences.

Have a look at the list of highest grossing films ever. Very few make any attempt at reflecting reality. Some even mix space and magic.

I meant how do they compare to a fantasy superhero movie not how do they compare to each other. They also have singular protagonists. The only top 10 grossing movie that even compares is Lord of the Rings and I would be people are much more familiar with dwarves, elves and magic than they are with the Norse gods. Not to mention that the Lord of the Rings is already a classic that is taught in schools.

Instead Joss has 4 main protagonists along with a rather large supporting cast in a world that is not well known to the public in general unless they've seen all the lead in movies. I don't think it's an easy sell is all.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
I have every confidence in Joss's ability to bring people in.

Is this a recently obtained ability?

STORYMARK

Monday, August 30, 2010 9:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
They don't really - which helps my point even more. Two wildly different films, which make no effort at being grounded in reality, yet are massively successful and popular with general audiences.

Have a look at the list of highest grossing films ever. Very few make any attempt at reflecting reality. Some even mix space and magic.

I meant how do they compare to a fantasy superhero movie not how do they compare to each other.

I know, and my point stands - they relate to each other as well as they relate to a superhero movie. My whole point was success is not contingent on being grounded in reality.

I'm not saying it'll be that big, or even a sure hit by any means. But to dismiss it as doomed for not being grounded in reality, seems a bit ludicrous at this stage.

Quote:
They also have singular protagonists. The only top 10 grossing movie that even compares is Lord of the Rings and I would be people are much more familiar with dwarves, elves and magic than they are with the Norse gods. Not to mention that the Lord of the Rings is already a classic that is taught in schools.

And by the time Avengers comes around, there will already have been a Thor movie which was already set-up a dozen times over in the very well-seen Iron Man 2 (not to mention Thor's been a presence in kids cartoons for the last several years - they've been planning for this), and that's in addition to the character being a part of the comics landscape since the mid-60's.

Sure, LOTR is still taught in schools - but it's hardly universally used. Many kids will have never read it. And those that do usually won't get to it till High School.

I'd wager an elementary school age kid knows more about Thor and Captain America right now (before their respective movies are even released) than a comparable kid would have known about Aragorn and Frodo a year before the first Rings movie came out.

And the Avengers won't be riding on familiarity with Norse Gods. The Thor movie will spoon feed the movie version of that anyway. And since Avengers is an ensemble, it's not Thor's movie, so the mythology is largely irrelevant by then. All people need to be familiar with is Superheroes - a concept they've been grokking for a while now.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

ZEEK

Monday, August 30, 2010 10:39 PM

Another problem is I'm not convinced Captain America or Thor will do the same type of business that Iron Man did. Hulk did maybe half as well as Iron Man and IMO it's cause he's just not a cool hero. He's big and strong. Whoopdy doo almost all superheroes are strong.

So we have Captain America who is strong, agile and has a big shield. Meh. It's going to be set in the WWII which has older tech and is kinda lame by today's standards. Not so sure that one's going to be a huge draw.

Thor has the whole Norse god thing going on. That doesn't really do anything for me. He's not a character that I can relate to. He's no Peter Parker.

I'll probably see them both just as a lead in to Avengers but if they weren't I'd just wait for them to hit cable.

So, if Cap and Thor don't do so well then what does that do to Avengers?

BORIS

Monday, August 30, 2010 11:22 PM

hey Bytemite any time you're down this way let me know and we'll definitely do drinks :-)

BYTEMITE

Monday, August 30, 2010 11:34 PM

Quote:
The only top 10 grossing movie that even compares is Lord of the Rings and I would be people are much more familiar with dwarves, elves and magic than they are with the Norse gods.

Shhh-shhh shhh! You'll make Loki laugh, and... oh dammit. Freki and Geri are giving the sad puppy now look. Why have you abandoned them? SAD PUPPY NOW!

Quote:
Instead Joss has 4 main protagonists along with a rather large supporting cast in a world that is not well known to the public in general unless they've seen all the lead in movies. I don't think it's an easy sell is all.

Eh, Ironman 2 seemed to have a good box office take, which probably means they retains some people from the first one, and all of them will probably go see the spiritual successor. Too bad about Norton and the Hulk, though.

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