Michael Moores' F 9/11... will you see it?

POSTED BY: Ghoulman
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 3, 2004 20:30
VIEWED: 28912
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GHOULMAN

Friday, July 2, 2004 12:58 PM

^^^ Wow! Stop, all that reasoning and insight. Please, the world is amazed!

Jeez.

LOSTINTHEVERSE

Tuesday, July 13, 2004 9:45 PM

I don't intend on seeing this work until it comes out on cable. I simply don't want my money in Moore's coffers. I'm curious as to what he has to say, even if I don't agree with his politics. He has completely forfeited his credibility with Bowling for Columbine. I recognize and agree with his right to produce and tout any thing he wants, truthful or not, just as I recognize Disney's right to not distribute. Free Speech does not include absolute right to major distribution. I find it helpful to read the first amendment when it comes to disputing freedom of speech:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Congress shall make no law... by saying "I disagree" or even "Shut up, you moron" I am not in anyway diminishing your right to free speech, just as Miramax was not infringing on Moore's right by not stamping their name on the film and distributing it.

Credibility is an interesting thing... 90% of your facts can be true, but the 10% of evidence that is fabricated completely undermines your present argument (not to mention all of your future arguments).

One who has shown that he is willing to lie to prove "a higher point" has not proven his point at all, but taken from it the credibility to let his argument stand.

One mans opinion, feel free to completely tear it apart.

~Lost In The Verse

"About a year before we met, I spent 6 weeks on a moon where the primary form of recreation was juggling geese. My hand to god. Baby geese. Goslings. They were juggled!" ~Wash

ANTISTRUCTURE

Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:08 PM

SAW IT, ITS EXCELLENT.

We all live in a world of disinformation, a bit of the truth gets out, and people see it as lie, if moore is lieing, tell me the lies, Document your argument (much like moore does) and back up your argument, or are you just quoting Rightwing corporate spinsters!?

GHOULMAN

Wednesday, July 14, 2004 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LostInTheVerse:

One who has shown that he is willing to lie to prove "a higher point" has not proven his point at all, but taken from it the credibility to let his argument stand.

THIS is a most valid critisism, so I will take you seriously instead of the trolls who follow me around.

Michael Moore is a lefty, is pro union, and an advocate for the poor. Also he is a journalist... but, he isn't a documentarian.

I don't agree with your opinions about Moore (Columbine hit the nail on the head, and won the awards to prove it one might offer), but I do agree Moore is fast and loose with his facts. He is frustratingly annoying that way... his movies are, at best, infotainment.

I've heard Moore call this movie journalism, well, considering we live in a world where CNN reporters just make shit up... I think Moore is OK. At least in the ball park enough to be taken seriously.

After all... it doesn't take a truck load of facts or knowledge to show GWB is a moron. To tell ya the truth, I thought Moores' movie was moderate and leaned a fair bit to the centre.

Quote:
Originally posted by LostInTheVerse:
One mans opinion, feel free to completely tear it apart.

And this is all Michael Moores movie is.. his opinion. It isn't propoganda (you have to share an agenda with others for that), and the movie really is just presenting a linear progression to a question... what the hell happened to the USA and who's to blame.

JASONZZZ

Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:11 PM

Michael Moore's bullying is making it's way around. Just randomly pissing people off. He blabbed off about Pete Townshend and that use of "Won't Get Fooled Again".

The Who's guitarist Pete Townshend is upset with Moore over another issue stemming from his film, but it's not his political stance.

"I have nothing against Michael Moore personally... but I greatly resent being bullied and slurred by him in interviews just because he didn't get what he wanted from me," he posted on his web site.

Townshend says Moore approached him about using "Won't Get Fooled Again" on the soundtrack to Fahrenheit 9/11, but Townshend refused, promoting Moore to say that the guitarist was therefore in favour of the war.

Townshend says this line of thought is along the lines of Bush himself (you're either with us, or against us).

http://www.petetownshend.co.uk/diary/display.cfm?id=89&zone=diary

JASONZZZ

Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:18 PM

Over at Washington Post, Jeff Morley talks about how Michael Moore as a person behaves and appears (to foreign presses) to be no more than the average "ugly American" that he decries and portrays in his movies. Dispensing ill-conceived political advices to citizens of foreign countries - strictly from a completely geo-centric view of an "ugly American".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46304-2004Jul13.html

GHOULMAN

Wednesday, July 14, 2004 6:34 PM

^^^ it would be nice if you didn't include links to papers that require "registration" to see the article. Post it! Just keep the byline intact.

Interesting posts J (what? no rude pics posted? ). Um, did you see the movie?

What did YOU think?

JASONZZZ

Wednesday, July 14, 2004 7:22 PM

Since registration is required for articles a day old or more, here's the complete article from the Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46304-2004Jul13.html

Nope, didn't have any rude pictures accompanying the article. Maybe some of Moore getting egg cream pie on his face?

Michael Moore, Ugly American
Filmmaker Taken to Task for Arrogance, Ignoring Israel

By Jefferson Morley
washingtonpost.com Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 13, 2004; 10:30 AM

Michael Moore can handle verbal abuse from the conservative pundits in America, but harsh words from Pete Townshend, lead guitarist for The Who, may hit closer to his liberal heart.

"I greatly resent being bullied and slurred by him just because he didn't get what we wanted from me," Townshend told Ireland Online.

Moore wanted Townshend's rock anthem "Won't Get Fooled Again" for use on the soundtrack of his anti-Bush documentary film, "Fahrenheit 9/11." Townshend refused, saying he thought Moore's previous movies amounted to "bullying." In response, Townshend said that Moore accused him of being a war supporter. Townshend says Moore's attitude was evocative of President Bush's war on terrorism credo: if you're not with me, you're against me.

"It seems to me that this aspect of his nature is not unlike that of the powerful and willful man at the centre of his documentary," Townshend observed.

Ouch. As "Fahrenheit 9/11" is released into theaters around the world, Moore is beginning to face a new kind of criticism. On American talk radio, Moore may be denounced as practically anti-American. In the international online media, the pudgy filmmaker from Flint, Michigan, is often seen as all too American. He is more than occasionally described as a stereotypical "ugly American" -- overbearing to people of different cultures, oblivious to nuance, unsophisticated in politics and arrogant in temperament.

The most common substantive criticism is that he scants the role of Israel in the politics of the Iraq war.

But the criticism hasn't kept people from lining up at the box office. The opening day box office receipts broke the British record for a documentary, according to the Daily Telegraph of London.

The French attitude was evident in a droll dispatch in Le Monde about Moore's press conference for foreign reporters in New York last week. In front of 150 reporters, Moore dispensed political advice to the people of many nations.

He urged the British to vote out Prime Minister Tony Blair. He wished the Australians would dump Prime Minister John Howard.

"The chief of the Italian government, Silvio Berlusconi, was not forgotten by the filmmaker," the Parisian daily observed dryly.

"If I were an Italian citizen, I would have left the movie theater asking myself what in the world Berlusconi was doing by always hanging on to George W. Bush's coattails," Moore was quoted as saying. "It is embarrassing for Italy and the earlier there is regime change in Rome, the better."

Moore also had advice for the people of South Korea, according to the Seoul daily Chosun Ilbo.

"I hope Korean viewers start a social campaign against the dispatch of additional troops to Iraq," he said.

Moore was apparently unaware that South Koreans opposed to the U.S.-led war had started such a campaign more than a year ago and that it already enjoys substantial public support.

Simon Houpt of Toronto's Globe and Mail wrote Moore's advice "reflected a typically American arrogance -- his assumption that the war should be the primary issue for foreign voters simply because it's the primary issue for him."

To be sure, Moore's movie has overseas admirers. After all, the film did win the prestigious Palme d'Or at the Cannes international film festival.

"The genius of this most American of films is that it has turned politics into a blockbuster subject," wrote a reviewer in the Observer of London. "It's the first punk rock movie: it must have cost less to make than The Blair Witch Project, and yet he's managed to distill reality and come up with som

GHOULMAN

Wednesday, July 14, 2004 8:10 PM

Thanx JasonZZZ (still didnt' catch your personal thoughts... assuming you saw F9/11). That article is, in my humble opinion, picking nits at best and is terribly written.

So I'll nitpick back at the article. And point out a few writerly annoyances.

As a person who is somewhat aware of how reporters write these things, I noticed that the writer intimates a negative view coming from European Moore viewers... he starts this intimation in the third paragraph (even though he started with Pete Townsand.. huh? Great writing jeffie ) then in the 12th (!) paragraph down from the third he admites F9/11 won Canne!

That's called "burying the point". That is, puting in info you KNOW you will have to include but contradicts your point of view in the essay.

Personally, if I was his editor I'd tell him to learn to write.

And there is an air of Anti-Americanism in this article. One that came from the writer insisting that anti-Americanism is aimmed at Moore from Europeans. Yea... right. Let's have a short quote from someone in the European press shall we? After all, just stating you read something in the French paper Le Monde is NOT proper journalism. Not by a long shot!

And then this article goes on and on about Israel. Yea, we are all aware of Isreal and the USA connection. Which is prolly why Moore avoided it entirely in his movie. I would have too. That's a whole new movie!

Moore followed the Saudi money to the Bushies. It may not be the reasons for the Iraq invasion, but it suuuuuure is a concern. Especially since most of the 9/11 terrorists are from there. Moore has done the one thing any good investigator should do - FOLLOW THE MONEY!

Gotta watch who writes in the press these days. Lots of crap out there.

HORKUS

Wednesday, July 14, 2004 9:11 PM

No matter your politics, you need to research this film.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

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