How do you spell Freedom from Oil?

POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 29, 2026 16:38
VIEWED: 2561
PAGE 2 of 4

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 NEXT PAGE

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:15 AM

"If every two car family bought one electric car for around town and kept one of their gas guzzlers for cross county it would still make a huge difference."

Hello,

True enough. Or if you're like me, and the whole house shares one car, make it a plug-in hybrid.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

MANGOLO

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:29 PM

Are we speaking of just oil for fuel or oil for all petroleum based products?

Fuel: we could easily do it in less than 5 years.

This time next year our family oil for fuel should go to near to zero. My 1 year plan is to install a microhydro system big enough to give me power for an EV (Nissan LEAF or?) We already have solar hot water and PV for the house.

I read a study last year that compared keeping your old gas guzzler (ie 15 mpg) versus dumping it for a hybrid. For the first 5 years the hybrid is still working off the carbon foot print of manufacturing it.

BTW The rare earths that are used in making the ceramic parts for hybrids come from some of the most toxic strip mines in the world. Nothing is simple, eh?

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:38 PM

Hello,

If plastics can be recycled efficiently, the amount of new petroleum we need could become very small once fuel replacement has occurred. Not to mention that there are other places to get oil than out of a well.

But no, nothing is ever simple. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch, as they say. Everything has a cost, and even green technology isn't all green. We can only hope to shop around for the best deal we can negotiate for ourselves. Less is More, in this case. Even if the alternative energy wasn't green at all, it'd be worth investing in for the health of my pocketbook. Renewable energy is very inexpensive once the collection and infrastructure investment is complete.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

GEEZER

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:01 PM

Not that electric cars aren't a good idea, but there are currently a few limiting conditions.

1. They generally take quite a while to recharge. Electric car filling stations aren't going to be practical until recharge IS down to 5 minutes, or there's a universal battery pack that can be swapped out quickly. The new Nissan Leaf, with a 100 mile range, takes 8 hours to recharge on it's special 220/240V 40 Amp charger.

2. Batteries are still expensive (The Leaf runs around $34,000.00, compared to $10,000 for the similar-size Nissan Versa, and still $26,000+ after all government rebates) and may not have as long a service life as the rest of the car. If they fail in 5 years (Nissan says 5-10 years on the Leaf) in a car that could otherwise go 15, and replacement is currently pretty expensive. It'll probably come down, but I'm not sure it's quite there yet. Recycling of used batteries may also be an issue.

3. Energy to charge electric cars has to come from somewhere, and unfortunately that's likely to be coal or gas-fired plants. Also not sure if the power grid can deal with the additional drain. Solar cells on the car won't be an option until they are orders of magnitude more efficient than we got now.

4. Converting existing cars to electric is doable, but it's sort of a kludge. The efficient battery packs are custom designed for the cars they go in, so conversions end up being done with good old heavy lead-acid batteries. These can add up to a ton of weight to a vehicle, overloading the suspension and brakes and making them dangerous to drive.

If I wanted to cut down on oil usage right away, I'd try to get people into small gas or hybrid cars. Upping the price of gas via tax might do it. A Civic hybrid gets 40mpg city/45mpg highway an starts at $23,000. Ford Fusion is slightly bigger gets 41 city/36 highway. Most car companies have similar stuff. They're pretty efficient, and aren't tied to a recharger 8 hours for every 100 miles driven.

I'd also do stuff like Washington D.C.'s 5 cent tax on any disposable bag. Get folks to carry reusable bags. And tax or ban plastic water bottles (although they sure are handy).

I don't doubt that in a while electric cars will become more user-friendly and common, but I don't see them as much of a force right now.

ETA: don't forget that if your electric car runs out of juice, it's probably gonna need a tow to a recharger at the very least. A Hybrid just needs a couple of gallons of gas.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

KWICKO

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Yes, if I drove cross-country a lot, it would be a problem.

But I don't. I haven't done a drive in excess of 100 miles since 2004.

And if I needed to make that rare trip? Well, I could rent a car, buy premium, and still come out ahead after my once-per-decade road trip.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

That's why I got rid of my full-size pickup, Anthony. I just wasn't using it enough to justify the payments, the insurance, the $85 fill-ups... I decided if I needed a pickup, I could rent one at the Home Despot [sic] for $20 a day, and call it good.

The number one thing we can do is MAKE THE COMMITMENT, and REMEMBER THAT WE MADE THE COMMITMENT.

Lower the demand for oil, and the oil companies will lower the price. When that happens, car companies will start producing more Hummer H2s and Ford Excursions, and politicians will sign tax breaks for people who buy them. You have to make a concerted effort and a commitment to NOT do shit like that, or all your other efforts are for naught.

What can YOU do, yourself, right now?

Check your tire pressures. Tune up your car. Go from low-profile, wide, performance (grippier) tires to taller, thinner, harder-compound, lower-rolling-resistance tires. Practice "hyper-miling"; it's more fun and challenging than you'd think. Shift at 2500rpm, or even less. I can idle along at 40mph in 5th gear at 900rpm, if I don't need to accelerate anytime this century. :) If I need to get going, I have to drop it three gears down (to second) and nail it. But I've gotten my mileage above 55mpg on one tank just assing around that way.

Depending on the car, let the engine do more of your braking, especially if it's a manual transmission. If you put it in neutral and coast down or use the brake, you're still feeding fuel to the engine while it's idling. If you coast down in gear, the fuel flow is cut, and the pumping action (drag) of the engine helps slow you down. In short, if you have to use the brake pedal, you fail. Oddly, you can INCREASE mileage in some circumstances by flooring the throttle at lower rpm, trading torque for horsepower (lower revs, fewer revolutions of the engine, fewer sprays of fuel, and MORE throttle opening allowing more air into the cylinders).

When I was playing with hypermiling, I would launch in first gear, floor it up to 2000rpm, shift, repeat. Keep the revs LOW.

But again, that's just little things we can ALL do, to one extent or another.

Combine trips. Carpool if you can. Ride a bike. Walk to the corner store instead of driving there to get your beer or smokes; hey, you might get healthier to boot. Go figure...

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:07 PM

Hello Geezer,

You have some good points. I will disagree on a few minor areas, but overall your assessment is sound.

1) Electric cars generally take quite a while to recharge, but this is changing. I've been reading articles like this one that suggest brighter days are on the horizon: http://www.ecogeek.org/component/content/article/1533 Also, I'm not at all opposed to plug-in hybrids, which offer the best of both worlds.

2) Batteries are incredibly expensive. But this, too, is a situation that is changing every day. The more people invest in electric cars, the cheaper this technology will become.

3) It is generally considered better for 100,000 people to draw energy from one 'dirty' plant than for those same folks to get power from 100,000 combustion engines. I don't have cites for this, but I swear I read it somewhere. ;-) Feel free to call bogus on this if you have contrary information. As for solar cells, the place to put them is on your house, not the car. Sell energy to the power company all day, and then buy it back to charge your car each night. A supplemental solar panel on the car's roof might not be an awful idea, though. Especially if, like me, your car sits parked in the sun for 8 hours each day. I drive about 2-3 miles to get to work, and it's possible 8 hours in the sun could actually replace the energy used during the trip. This is 80% of the driving I do.

4) I agree here. This is why the only car I've really thought would make a decent conversion is a truck, since it's already primed for the weight and has a ready-made cargo area for the batteries. Makes it useless as a truck, of course.

I agree with you that hybrid cars are the immediate solution until the rest of everything gets into place. If they are plug-in hybrids, they can operate as electric cars most of the time, and use gas only for emergencies/long trips.

Also, if your car runs out of juice, the answer to that is probably a simple technology: An emergency battery pack that can plug into the cigarette lighter or some specialty plug and move the car 5-10 miles in a crisis. They have similar emergency battery packs for jump starting your car. People usually keep it in their trunk. Of course, again, a plug-in hybrid solves this problem, since you are carrying a portable electric generator in the car at all times.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

GEEZER

Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I've been reading articles like this one that suggest brighter days are on the horizon: http://www.ecogeek.org/component/content/article/1533 Also, I'm not at all opposed to plug-in hybrids, which offer the best of both worlds.

Unfortunately, the cityZENN seems to be one of those projects that's "just around the corner" but never makes the turn. A lot of the smaller efforts to make cheap electric cars seem to be in the same boat. I suspect that it'll be a major carmaker who does it, and the quick (5 minute) recharge won't be soon. I'm betting hybrid, especially plug-in, holds a large percent of the Green market for quite some time.

Quote:
The more people invest in electric cars, the cheaper this technology will become.

I'm expecting that the more research is done, the cheaper they'll get, but I'm not expecting any big breakthrough, just incremental improvement over several years.

Quote:
As for solar cells, the place to put them is on your house, not the car. Sell energy to the power company all day, and then buy it back to charge your car each night.

Depends on where you live. A condo or appartment may not allow you to have a roof to use. Solar is a good idea, but everyone can't access the rays.

Quote:
A supplemental solar panel on the car's roof might not be an awful idea, though.

Apparently the Leaf does have an option for a panel on the spoiler to charge a battery for accessories like radio and a/c fan.

Quote:
Also, if your car runs out of juice, the answer to that is probably a simple technology: An emergency battery pack that can plug into the cigarette lighter or some specialty plug and move the car 5-10 miles in a crisis.

This'd be a good idea, but looking on the Nissan Leaf site, for example, I see no discussion of it.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

ANTHONYT

Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:15 AM

"I'm expecting that the more research is done, the cheaper they'll get, but I'm not expecting any big breakthrough, just incremental improvement over several years."

Hello,

I'm actually hoping for that next-gen breakthrough. I read something a year or two ago about using nanotubes to make better batteries. I figure it'll take 5-10 years for them to make it happen. But when it does? I think batteries will become twice as good, or better, almost overnight. It'll be a revolutionary type change, I figure. Like the transistor.

But that's a dream and a hope. You're right- plug-in hybrids are right now.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

DREAMTROVE

Thursday, June 17, 2010 3:17 AM

Geez

Check out the tesla family car. Things are ramming up real quick.

Also, can I make a plug for nuclea here? The power of a decent third gen nuke generator dwarfs anything else we have

Also, I'd gladly take oil over nat gas, coal or biofuels, since all of the latter are far more ecodamaging. I think oil is pretty ecosafe, though not as much as wind, solar or nuclear. It's just that you cant have halfassed douche bags running oil wells. Bp has in my mind sacrificed it's right to that oil, our oil, and someone else should drill it.

After someone plugs the damn hole.

Right now were doing everything possible to *stop* nat gas and coal, which are wreaking havoc on our landscape and water supply. Sort of on a level of nuclear war, so it's not slight.

ANTHONYT

Thursday, June 17, 2010 3:20 AM

Hello,

I didn't know natural gas was hurting the environment. Half the appliances in my house use gas. I've always been led to believe it was a good economical and eco friendly option.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 NEXT PAGE