system or galaxy - what are the facts?

POSTED BY: Tiger
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 21:46
VIEWED: 23608
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DIEGO

Monday, July 12, 2004 1:31 PM

>If I recall correctly, Mal makes a reference to 50 moons. Now, >while this isn't an exact figure, most likely, it would lend
>stock to the idea that there are very few worlds that aren't >moons, and that there are several planets but many moons.

I said 70 "worlds" in order to avoid just that question. However my explanation would still hold whether there were 50 moons of 50 planets, as long as most of them are scattered in different star systems. My main point is that Mal doesn't have to be able to visit all these celestial orbs to know of their existence (and presumably to know that the meek have "inherited not a one of them").

THEREALME

Monday, July 12, 2004 2:41 PM

Purplebelly,

All we have to work with are tiny bits and pieces, subtle hints that most likely were not intentionally included.

Please do not make the mistake of waving about the subtle hints that support your position and trivializing the subtle hints that do not.

The Real Me

THEREALME

Monday, July 12, 2004 3:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:

The reason so many fans like the Single System Theory is that it is so unique.

For years in almost every work of science fiction involving space travel, the theme has been travel throughout the galaxy. If Firefly takes place in one solar system, that would make it highly original and it would be one of many thing that would distinguish it from all all other scifi.

I for one can't think of any material where its been done before!

The anime series Cowboy Bebop takes place in one solar system (ours). Of course, you might decide to not take a "cartoon" seriously, but really, it is great stuff.

The Real Me

PURPLEBELLY

Monday, July 12, 2004 3:26 PM

Fair enough, TheRealMe. I guess we just find interest in different rabbit holes

GUNRUNNER

Monday, July 12, 2004 5:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THEREALME:
Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:

The reason so many fans like the Single System Theory is that it is so unique.

For years in almost every work of science fiction involving space travel, the theme has been travel throughout the galaxy. If Firefly takes place in one solar system, that would make it highly original and it would be one of many thing that would distinguish it from all all other scifi.

I for one can't think of any material where its been done before!

The anime series Cowboy Bebop takes place in one solar system (ours). Of course, you might decide to not take a "cartoon" seriously, but really, it is great stuff.

The Real Me

Didn't "Star Hunter" take place only in the Sol System?

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CYBERSNARK

Monday, July 12, 2004 6:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THEREALME:
The anime series Cowboy Bebop takes place in one solar system (ours). Of course, you might decide to not take a "cartoon" seriously, but really, it is great stuff.

Same for Gundam Wing (in fact, fairly deep in our system --Zechs & Noin think Mars is a distant getaway). In fact there's a great deal of talk later in the series (and in the movie, Endless Waltz) of calculating vectors, thrust, and using decaying orbits to plot intercept points.

And Quatre has mastered the art of steering by blowing up strategic portions of his ship while keeping the engines at full-burn.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

CREVANREAVER

Monday, July 12, 2004 6:51 PM

OK, OK! Starhunter and this Cowboy Bebop cartoon both took place exclusively in the Sol system.

I'm not familiar with Cowboy Bebop so I can't comment on that. However, from what I know about Starhunter, it didn't involve much terraforming.

What I wrote about how one solar system would make Firefly unique is that it would be various Earth-like planets in a single system.

I can't think of any series where that was the focus of the show, however if you guys can, please let me know.

DRYGUYSTOPHER

Monday, July 12, 2004 7:20 PM

Danfan, this is a point I've been thinking of for a while. I think everyone looking for a one-system or galaxy answer should think about it:

Quote:

4) Lot’s of talk about “Earth that was” that is no longer habitable. So they terraformed 70+ new planets to live on. If they have interstellar FTL drive and they travel between multiple planetary systems spread out all over the galaxy (needing only days or weeks depending on how circuitous the route taken), then a trip back to the Solar system would be like a drive to the grocery store. And if you can terraform a barren rock out on the edge of the “habitable zone” in one star system, you could surely terraform a once (abundantly) life-bearing planet smack in the middle of Sol’s habitable zone. Strip the poisoned atmosphere, reload a new one (just like you’ve done dozens of times before), reseed with plant/animal life from the Alliance worlds and start selling tickets to “Earth that is.” But the feeling of the story is that it isn’t possible to do what’s already been done over and over again… so why?

I agree with Danfan. Clearly there must be limitations to travel. Personally, I think Serenity travels at sub-light speeds. In my opinion it is possible that FTL travel exists in the Firefly 'verse. But if it does exists the alliance would keep it to itself or possibly, it's so difficult and expensive that few can afford a FTL ship.

THEREALME

Monday, July 12, 2004 8:30 PM

Okay, Cowboy Bebop. I don't have an axe to grind about this series, it's just one that takes place in one system and has a number of terraformed earthlike worlds.

After a disaster that made Earth less habitable... "Nothing good comes from Earth anymore"... the folks in that series terraformed Venus, Mars, and at least one of the moons of Jupiter to have more or less earthlike conditions.

They also had what seemed to be hyperspace gates that allowed quick transit among the bodies of the solar system, but which was never used for interstellar trips.

The Real Me

THEREALME

Monday, July 12, 2004 9:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by danfan:

4) Lot’s of talk about “Earth that was” that is no longer habitable. So they terraformed 70+ new planets to live on. If they have interstellar FTL drive and they travel between multiple planetary systems spread out all over the galaxy (needing only days or weeks depending on how circuitous the route taken), then a trip back to the Solar system would be like a drive to the grocery store. And if you can terraform a barren rock out on the edge of the “habitable zone” in one star system, you could surely terraform a once (abundantly) life-bearing planet smack in the middle of Sol’s habitable zone. Strip the poisoned atmosphere, reload a new one (just like you’ve done dozens of times before), reseed with plant/animal life from the Alliance worlds and start selling tickets to “Earth that is.” But the feeling of the story is that it isn’t possible to do what’s already been done over and over again… so why?

We are plagued with warring assumptions. My own feeling is that Earth That Was is not lost, it is just used up. Yes, they could travel back to Earth. There is just no purpose.

The single system terraforming of 70+ worlds implies the ability to terraform rather small bodies and perhaps even move their orbits into the life zone of the star. Or else it assumes an extraordinary number of large bodies orbiting in a star's life zone.

On the other hand, the multiple star system terraforming of 70+ worlds might only be able to start with worlds very close in size and mass and other features to the Earth.

And to head off the "moon" discussion before it starts up again, a moon is only a body that orbits a larger non-stellar body. It implies nothing about size. A moon can be as large or larger than Earth, as long as the body it orbits is larger still.

Now, making the assumption that Earth can be terraformed back into something useful seems right IF you assume that one CAN terraform a lifeless barren rock at the edge of the habitable zone.

But that makes an assumption about how good their terraforming tech is.

To be fair, I will add that someone (Zoid, I think?) once pointed out a quote from Zoe that clearly implied the ability to alter a world's gravity as part of terraforming. This might lead to a near magical super-terraforming capability, but if you can do that, I feel that the universe would feel and be much different from what we have seen.

That's my $2.00.

The Real Me

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