LOST Finale

POSTED BY: cljohnston108
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 13:30
VIEWED: 6802
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TWO

Monday, May 24, 2010 4:34 PM

Jewel Staite tweeted, “While I'm still processing that doozy of a finale and may need to smoke some peyote to understand it, I so loved Lost. Already miss it :( ”
http://twitter.com/JewelStaite/statuses/14630482392

I'm bitter because I had wanted to believe that the Island was really a giant flying saucer that had crashed millions of years ago, killing its alien pilots and the dinosaurs.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

TWO

Monday, May 24, 2010 4:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by cljohnston108:
Since I don't have a TV, I'm waiting for a decent torrent to show up.
Now I'm wondering if it's even worth the effort.

If you must torrent, there is http://eztv.it/shows/171/lost/

But why wait for a torrent when there is faster?
http://www.scnsrc.net/tv/omfg-its-the-lost-ffffffffffiiiiiiiinnnnnaaaa
aaaaaaalllllleeeeee-o/
http://www.rlslog.net/lost-s06e17-hdtv-xvid-notv/

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

LWAVES

Monday, May 24, 2010 5:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
I think given time and another viewiing of this last season I could answer most of the questions I have to my satisfaction.

Really? I mean you either have a very small list of obviously questions or you're delusional IMO.

There is just way too much left open that we don't have enough evidence to answer. You can make stuff up for it, but there's no way to really figure it out.

For instance how did Eloise Hawking know to meet Desmond in the jewelery store? From what we can tell her future knowledge all came from Daniel's notebook. Desmond never discussed that event with Daniel so it should not have been in his notebook. There is also the issue of how she knew the man in the red shoes would be killed. How could that have made it in Daniel's notebook? There just isn't any evidence to figure out what was going on.

Lost is full of mysteries like that. I think it's pretty safe to say there's no answer because the writers don't have an answer. They wanted to make that scene to move other plot points along. If they needed a flying dishwasher to move something along then there would be a flying dishwasher with not explanation of where it came from. Shoddy writing IMO.

I did say MOST questions, not all, and I did say to MY satisfaction and yes it would be a theory based answer for some of the answers, maybe a lot of them, but based on what I've seen in the show.
You say yourself that Lost is full of mysteries so it stands to reason to me that even now the show has ended that there would still be mysteries ongoing, even some of the bigger ones.
And I disagree that it's shoddy writing that they didn't answer some of the plot points. Why should they answer everything. Real life doesn't offer all the answers so why should a TV show? They chose the ones they wanted answer and left the rest for us. As I say in time and repeated viewings I'm sure more answers will come forth but not defiinitely not all of them.

As for Eloise Hawking I have a theory and it brings me on to the term 'special' This was used quite a bit in the show and it bugged me when folks automatically assumed it meant special abilities or powers. Some special characters appeared to have abilities, others didn't. They were 'special' in other ways (destiny/fate or whatever). I believe Eloise Hawking was one of these with an ability. Her ability was to see the future, or more accurately - see the various timelines of people. She spent a good portion of her life knowing that she killed her son. Everything she did was leading Daniel to that moment. It's why she knew what Des had to do, why she pushed Daniel into physics instead of music, why she helped the Oceanic 6 get back to the island etc etc. Then in the sideways timeline she didn't want Des to succeed because she thought he was going to take Daniel away. Des said he wasn't taking him and Eloise seemed happy. Maybe she couldn't move on because of her guilt or some other reason we don't know. But neither her or Daniel were a big enough part of Jack's life to be a part of the funeral guests.
As I say this is my theory based on what I got from the show. There is no direct evidence in the show saying that Eloise Hawking is this and this and she did this because of this reason. But there is evidence in other characters of things that may apply.

My biggest problem with the whole show is Walt. I think they made a mistake having a kid on the island and then having a years worth of shows add up to a couple of months of island time. In real life he grew up and when the creators realised this they had no way out but to let the character leave the show or they'd have to find a way to explain why he grew so fast. Unfortunately for them there was no way round it but by then it was too late and fans wanted to know more and they couldn't really deliver.

Part of my enjoyment of Lost through all the seasons was not having the answers and then hearing other folks ideas of what was going on. Some great, so

ZEEK

Monday, May 24, 2010 6:06 PM

I just think you're wrong that there ARE answers. I don't think the writers even bothered thinking of how to explain the things that were happening.

How about Jack's Dad appearing to him in the lobby of his building when he was off the island. If smokey's whole deal was getting off the island then surely he couldn't have been off the island appearing to Jack.

I have this theory: the writers hadn't decided what the point was yet. They came up with smokey wanting to get off the island in the last season. I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary yet.

LWAVES

Monday, May 24, 2010 8:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I just think you're wrong that there ARE answers. I don't think the writers even bothered thinking of how to explain the things that were happening.

How about Jack's Dad appearing to him in the lobby of his building when he was off the island. If smokey's whole deal was getting off the island then surely he couldn't have been off the island appearing to Jack.

I have this theory: the writers hadn't decided what the point was yet. They came up with smokey wanting to get off the island in the last season. I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary yet.

Fair enough and it's a fair point about Jack's Dad in the lobby, the same could probably be said of Claire appearing to Kate in Aaron's bedroom.
But the writers have repeatedly said that not every question would be answered or could be answered, especially in an entertaining way. IMO if you go into a show like this wanting every point answered clearly with evidence then you were watching the wrong show. Every show out there takes liberties with plot points, coincidences etc. Lost is no exception especially as it's so very complicated, which only makes it harder. Did they have everything plotted out from it's introduction? No. Did they have an idea of what the main focus of the ending? Probably/Maybe. I'm sure it changed quite a bit over the years like other long term shows.

It comes down to the personal opinion of what questions each fan wants answering. To me Christian appearing to Jack isn't important enough to the overall plot to matter. I could say my theory would be that he was addicted to painkillers at that stage (not sure on that) and may have been drinking with it. It may have been an hallucination. A quick thought I just had could be that it was the ghost of Christian that appeared to Jack, not Smokey. Maybe all that was needed to be a ghost was a body on the island, not actually dying there. He did also appear to Michael on the freighter as well.
Now I'm not saying that these are good explanations or valid ones, or even ones I believe. At the minute they are just quick ideas, plus it doesn't explain the Claire/Kate thing. But unless you scrutinsed every detail of the show we probably won't find an answer, if there is one.

Obviously you feel cheated by the show and are blaming the writers, which is your right. Viewers left in earlier seasons because of the same feeling that the writers screwing with them. IMO you are looking for too many answers in a show that never set out to give you all of them. I, on the other hand, am willing to accept that some points remain unsolved or unanswered as it was the very nature of the show.

I guess it comes down to what we each expected from the show and we are currently at opposite ends. Which backgammon pieces do you want, black or white?

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Monday, May 24, 2010 11:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Corncobb:
The Lost Finale was abysmal.

Hear Hear.

But the terrible storytelling that was Lost runs far deeper than the finale.

This was a show that had a powerful and thought-provoking 1st season. Where was this island? What was the hatch? Does Walt have powers? What was going on in the jungle with all the noises? Why were the numbers special? On, and on...

The moment the show jumped the shark was when the 2nd season opened. After looking back at the jumbled mess of Lost I see clearly what happened and the writers openly admitted it themselves just 4 weeks ago... They had a clear vision how to START a show that MIGHT get canceled, but had no clear vision of what to do when it DIDN'T.

By the time season 2 ended I was smelling a storytelling stink. By Season 3 I knew that they were shooting from the hip. This finale was meaningless to me. It was just more of what I'd grown to expect. Jumbled confusion. I might feel the dark frustration I direct at things like Buffy season 7 when I consider what became of Lost...if I actually cared.

I cannot help but compare these shows to real stories worked out in advance. I've harped on things like Neil Gaimans Sandman Series and George RR Martins work, this is because these men are true masters of the art. They worked out well in advance what their stories would be and made sure things clicked together as they progressed. This is what Firefly was supposed to be...what it SHOULD have been before it was murdered by Fox execs. But Lost? What a pile of go-see. And I really don't care. I'm not buying the DVDs, I'm not wasting my time on sites like lostpedia.com trying to figure out all the non-secrets. I honestly feel sorry for all the people I've witnessed who tried so hard to discect this show to learn it's mysteries. I'm sure they'd feel foolish had they sat in on the writting round-tables for lost where ppl tossed around bizarre new "twists" with no clear vision.

And even the one thing that was supposed to have endured from season 1 (the corpses "Adam and Eve" with the white and black stones) ended up being trite. There were great ideas online working out how they could have been Sun and Jin. But alas, that one single long-term plot device ended up being more of the mess.

No I'm sorry, the finale was just more of what I've come to expect. Season 1 was cool. Had the show been cancled then, maybe it would have endured in our minds like Firefly.

OPPYH

Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:46 AM

Everything that happened on the island happened. Beginning with season 6 every "flash sideways" was actually purgatory.

Jack was the last to realize he was dead.

Beautiful....even if it was a little Sixth Senseish.

-------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

CORNCOBB

Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:05 AM

Bluesuncompanyman, In retrospect i sadly have to agree with you. But up until a third of the way through season 6 I fully believed they were gonna pull a rabbit out of their hat, because they'd done so before. There were actually many times when mysteries on the show had answers that were surprising, clever, satisfying and tied plot threads together. There was still a lot to resolve after season 5, but I believed they could do it. I still believe they could have done it if they'd tried hard enough. But instead they decided to all but ditch the original storylines for an overlong and inconsistent parable about the afterlife. Suddenly, this year, all the answers (what few we got) seemed obvious, illogical, vague and contradictory. It's almost as if they were slapping us in the face with 'there are no rational explanations, and you were fools for thinking there were, but it doesn't matter because look - heaven!'. The show went from being sci-fi with spiritual overtones to being a fantasy show with a religious agenda. And before anyone jumps at the chance to say 'ah, but that church was multi-denominational' I should point out that I don't mean the agenda of one specific religion but rather an agenda to push general religious ideas. If they'd wanted to have a scene about heaven at the end I wouldn't have much cared (other than thinking it cheesy writing) but sacrificing so much screentime and plot to do this was ridiculous.

I agree that the mysteries were made up on the fly but they could have fixed that if they'd remained dedicated to the story right to the end. The flash-sideways had nothing to do with the story of LOST, other than featuring altered versions of the characters, because it didn't really resolve their issues (having everyone lose their memories and then regain them is not character progression). And ANY story could end with 'eventually they all die and go to limbo then meet up and go to heaven'. It's the ultimate cliched cop-out.

Right up until the end there was potential to salvage the story with some twists and revelations, but by then they just didn't care about the story they'd been showing us for the past six years. In truth, I don't think they ever cared. They've said enough to indicate that this really was how they always intended to end things. And we all thought, oh, how clever, they've thought it all through. But, as previously observed, any story could have had that ending, and it didn't matter what happened leadign up to it. So they just kept throwing up vague plot twists to keep us watching.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

LWAVES

Tuesday, May 25, 2010 1:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
But the terrible storytelling that was Lost runs far deeper than the finale.

The moment the show jumped the shark was when the 2nd season opened.

....the jumbled mess of Lost....

By the time season 2 ended I was smelling a storytelling stink. By Season 3 I knew that they were shooting from the hip.

So why the hell did you keep watching a show that you obviously considered to be so bad?
Why would you continue to spend so much time with it if you knew it couldn't go anywhere?

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

ZEEK

Tuesday, May 25, 2010 1:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
IMO if you go into a show like this wanting every point answered clearly with evidence then you were watching the wrong show.

I never said that. That's a dismissive statement and ignoring the issue that there were no answers. Not that they weren't given. That they just don't exist. I'm saying in the writing meetings they never bothered to come up with a answer for like 80% of the stuff they threw at the screen. That is not deep and complex writing. The writers introduced things to the story with no resolution in mind. I think that's pretty much a fact at this point. That is a cheat to the viewer.

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