Star Wars for the next generation
POSTED BY: khambilo
UPDATED: Friday, May 7, 2010 15:28
VIEWED: 19417
PAGE 7 of 9
Those were too flawed to bother with. James Cameron has achieved massive success and took the exact same genre to new film making levels. Showing that it is entirely possible in this day and age. Also showing success doesn't lobotomize creativity.
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Quote:I need to find a Sarcasm typeface so that people will not think of me as horrible moneygrubbing philistine. But I don't care enough to defend my artificial character called “two”.
Originally posted by Storymark:
What a very sad outlook. It's attitudes like this that ensure we get a steady stream of crap.
Films can be good AND make money. But as long as suckers keep shelling out for crap, there's no incentive for studios to try and make better product.
I feel bad for you.
Sarcasm ON:
Top Gun is #100 All Time Adjusted for Ticket Price Inflation www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=topgun.htm And it was produced by Jerry Bruckheimer, who knows high quality equals super loud sound track. So, hell yes! It's a truly great movie -- and grating on the ears -- wear earplugs because of the sonic booms.
I have often been moved to tears by movies. I've also been moved to tears when pulling nose hairs. Hollywood wants you to confuse commerce with art. And to believe that at least some of their products are significant. Please don't fall for that consumerist myth. Nothing Hollywood makes is significant. I'm thinking of Episodes I and II of StarWars, in particular. What a crappy pair of over-hyped movies. But, none the less, great movies because they made a great deal of money. The same can be truthfully said about Avatar.
Sarcasm OFF.
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
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Oddly, I didn't think Avatar was that creative, story-telling wise, setting wise, theme-wise, or even creature wise.
But then I suppose if I want to argue that, I'd have to argue the same about Star Wars (obvious eastern life force themes, samurai, the farm boy hero, princess, villain, and scoundrel archetypes are all present and used in abundance).
And Firefly is historical fiction set in a dystopian sci-fi setting, and also draws upon many of the same archetypes.
So I don't think I want to argue that.
Mostly I'm just pissed off that James Cameron's Na'vi are the exact same concept culturally, functionally, and even appearance-wise for a race that *I* came up with two years ago, which is probably why I want to bust it down so much for unoriginality.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
If that's right then Transformers 2, Independance Day, Home Alone, Top Gun and several others are amogst the greatest quality movies ever made.
Are you suggesting Top Gun isn't among the greatest movies ever made?
Actually yes I am.
It's a great movie that achieves what it sets out to do. But one of the greatest?
It's a Wham Bam Thank You Ma'am film that is full of cliches. The rebel with a haunted past, the goofball best mate, the unobtainable woman that he manages to get, the rivalry with those around him, the tragedy of losing someone and getting over it just in time to become the hero. It plays these well and the fact that Maverick doesn't get the trophy as well is a nice touch, but they are well trodden cliches and it doesn't try to do anything new or different with them.
It's a summer blockbuster movie that is entertaining in a 'put your brain in neutral' way but IMO opinion it could never get close to the greatest movies that make you think, move you emotionally in some way or whatever it may be.
"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall
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It's also fairly well researched, even if it's fictional (the Navy stopped giving out Top Gun awards for intraservice competition a decade or so before). A number of the fighter pilots in the story are based on real people.
Quote:
t's a Wham Bam Thank You Ma'am film that is full of cliches. The rebel with a haunted past, the goofball best mate, the unobtainable woman that he manages to get, the rivalry with those around him, the tragedy of losing someone and getting over it just in time to become the hero. It plays these well and the fact that Maverick doesn't get the trophy as well is a nice touch, but they are well trodden cliches and it doesn't try to do anything new or different with them.
In that case, Star Wars, Avatar, and Serenity are also cliche. Though I grant you some of the great dramas like The Godfather and Schindler's List are in another class entirely.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Oddly, I didn't think Avatar was that creative, story-telling wise, setting wise, theme-wise, or even creature wise.
But then I suppose if I want to argue that, I'd have to argue the same about Star Wars (obvious eastern life force themes, samurai, the farm boy hero, princess, villain, and scoundrel archetypes are all present and used in abundance).
And Firefly is historical fiction set in a dystopian sci-fi setting, and also draws upon many of the same archetypes.
So I don't think I want to argue that.
Mostly I'm just pissed off that James Cameron's Na'vi are the exact same concept culturally, functionally, and even appearance-wise for a race that *I* came up with two years ago, which is probably why I want to bust it down so much for unoriginality.
None of that stuff is revolutionary. It was the film making techniques that set a new standard IMO. The facial expressions of the actors being so well transferred to the CGI characters is pretty cool. I didn't watch it in 3D because I don't see that as all that cool, but a lot of people seem to love it. Apparently it set a new standard there too.
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I was annoyed that it's assumed an extraterrestrial species would have the exact same gestures and expressions as humans...
But yes, that is revolutionary, even if I think it was misused in the context of the story.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Those were too flawed to bother with.
Really? That's the best you can do? Flawed how then?
Sounds like you just don't have an answer, and rather than address the ideas, you bail.
Try harder, because that response makes you look afraid to actually debate the issue.
Quote:
James Cameron has achieved massive success and took the exact same genre to new film making levels. Showing that it is entirely possible in this day and age. Also showing success doesn't lobotomize creativity.
Well, if you're going to take it to that minute level, the technological advances Lucas utilized in the making of particularly Ep 1 & 2 are equivalent to what Cameron did with Avatar. So, by that criteria, he did raise the craft again with the prequels.
And I didn't say success ALWAYS lobotomizes creativity - but if you look, that is usually the case. Innovation in most art forms comes from the new guys, not the old guard.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Nothing Hollywood makes is significant.
In the grand scheme of human existance, no they aren't.
But that's a ridiculously myopic view. By that measure, no song, or book, or painting has ever been significant. And again - in the greater view, this would be true as well. But it's a sad and depressing way to view the world.
But in the context of discussing the art form itself, yes, there are many significant works.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:I wear contacts -- I am ridiculously myopic. Now I'm taking your criticism dead serious. Movies can have significance. Parents ought to go with their children to How To Train Your Dragon, which has teenager Hiccup thinking, inventing, and being original. Those characteristics need encouragement from movies. Dragon is much better for children than any StarWars-Avatar-Top Gun, which are only fine if your children are joining the U.S. Marines.
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Nothing Hollywood makes is significant.
In the grand scheme of human existance, no they aren't.
But that's a ridiculously myopic view. By that measure, no song, or book, or painting has ever been significant. And again - in the greater view, this would be true as well. But it's a sad and depressing way to view the world.
But in the context of discussing the art form itself, yes, there are many significant works.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
The world needs millions of creative adults like Hiccup or else the starships of the Firefly Verse won't happen in this century or the next.
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
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