Star Wars for the next generation
POSTED BY: khambilo
UPDATED: Friday, May 7, 2010 15:28
VIEWED: 19417
PAGE 6 of 9
Quote:George Lucas should have handed over directing and writing Episodes I, II, and III to anybody but George Lucas. My criteria for quality in movies is always... Money Made.
Originally posted by Storymark:
Yeah - it's a pretty unfair expectation. Very few people ever change the world. Even fewer do it more than once. Especially once they're (sorry older guys) past their prime as opposed to at their peak, and the head of a massively profitable company living a life of luxury as opposed to a hungry (literally and metaphorically) young artist trying to establish himself.
You are also comparing a man who approached the medium in a way no one had really done before, to one who was faced with revisting a style that (because of him) had become the standard in many ways.
The differences in context are huge. So, yeah, it probably was unreasonable to expect him to capture lightning in a bottle again.
Don't get me wrong - there are big problems with the prequels, and I don't think they equal the originals for the most part (I consider Sith and Jedi to be pretty close). I flat out hate most of TPM. I could go on and on about what could have/should have been changed - because, like everyone else, I imagined my own perfect prequels. But the prequels are still better and more imaginative than 90% of the big F/X driven blockbusters out there, but many people let their own, impossible to fulfill expectations, ruin their enjoyment of the things the movies did do well.
For Domestic Grosses Adjusted for Ticket Price Inflation at www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm
# 2 Star Wars - Director/Writer: Lucas
#13 The Empire Strikes Back - Director: Irvin Kershner, Writers: Lawrence Kasdan & Lucas
#15 Return of the Jedi - Director: Richard Marquand, Writers: Lawrence Kasdan & Lucas
#17 Raiders of the Lost Ark Director: Steven Spielberg, Writer: Lawrence Kasdan & (story by) Lucas, Philip Kaufman
#20 Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace - Director/Writer: Lucas
#58 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith - Director/Writer: Lucas
#85 Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones - Director/Writer: Lucas
Since 1977, Lucas's ego and vanity have cost 20th Century Fox millions in reduced ticket sales. I think the figures conclusively indicate that the less George Lucas in a Lucas movie, the more lucre.
I just realized that Lucas hates FOX because of Firefly's cancellation; that's why he keeps directing movies for them -- to cut down their ticket sales. George Lucas is on our side in the war against Sith Lord Rupert Darth Murdoch.
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
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Back in my original post I never really went into what I thought of the prequels. Personally... I don't hate them as much as all fans of the original apparently should. Episode I I will rarely watch, I really dislike much of that film. Jar Jar is annoying, the film can be pretty boring, I hate that kid... Only a the moments with qui gon and obi wan really did much for me. Attack of the clones wasn't so bad, I can watch that and be reasonably entertained. Episode 3 though? I loved that movie. I don't know what it was, but I thought it was great.
I think a lot of what I enjoy about star wars is the expanded universe stuff. There's just so much there. I played a lot of Star Wars galaxies before it got ruined, the KOTOR games were pretty good, and the books. I think for our kids and our kids kids, getting into star wars is perhaps going to be less influenced by what order they see the movies in, but more by what new game or book happens to be around in their time.
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Quote:
Originally posted by two:
My criteria for quality in movies is always... Money Made.
So your saying that the more money a movie makes the greater the quality of that movie?
Sorry if I misunderstood but that's the way it reads.
If that's right then Transformers 2, Independance Day, Home Alone, Top Gun and several others are amogst the greatest quality movies ever made. And movies like Godfather 2, Shawshank Redemption, Magnificent Seven, Great Escape and lots of others are of a lesser quality to those listed because they didn't make as much money. Where does that put Serenity by following your criteria?
There are a lot of other factors to consider besides money.
I do agree with you though that someone else should have co-written and directed the prequels. If we remember that Lucas only directed the original Star Wars, the sequels were directed by others.
"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall
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Quote:I prefer a crassly materialistic description of "success" in Hollywood. Any other criteria stinks of philosophy, which is bad for business. I'm warning you about Hollywood's products: If you're looking for the meaning of your life, you best not find it in a TV show or while watching movies (even StarWars & Serenity). Go elsewhere, unless you're a critic like Roger Ebert. Maybe the meaning of life can be found in comic books? Excuse me, Graphic Novels.
Originally posted by lwaves:Quote:So your saying that the more money a movie makes the greater the quality of that movie?
Originally posted by two:
My criteria for quality in movies is always... Money Made.
... There are a lot of other factors to consider besides money. ...
Quote:I already said something about Serenity and Joss Whedon - www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=42958#774121
Where does that put Serenity by following your criteria?
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Originally posted by Zeek:Quote:
Why is that? I don't think it's out of line to say he changed the world with Star Wars. I bet there are plenty of people who's entire lives were changed by the originals. I don't even know if I would have become an enginerd if it weren't for star wars.
When you're a child sure you're more impressionable - but as an adult?Quote:
Is it that far fetched to think that he could change the world again?
For us who grew up since having watched the originals yes I think it is far fetched. For kids of the generation of I, II & III there's a chance he'll inspire those kids.Quote:
Obviously after the fact it's plain to see he didn't, but going in there was no way to know what he had in store for us.
I don't believe it was ever possible to make that kind of impression with the same generation that saw the originals. Just my opinion of course - and it's all congecture so I could very well be wrong. But in all earnest as much as I loved the originals I didn't go to watch the prequels thinking I would feel the same way I did the first time around....
But that's just my take on it. Perhaps I'm more cynical than I realise and fair play to you for holding onto that ideal Zeek. I don't mean to contradict by the way.
I'm not talking just impressions on people individually. He pretty much changed film making. He created techniques and technologies. He was an innovator.
We were handed the flaming pile of Episode I when the potential was there for something great. I haven't heard any over the top criticism IMO.
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Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
If that's right then Transformers 2, Independance Day, Home Alone, Top Gun and several others are amogst the greatest quality movies ever made.
Are you suggesting Top Gun isn't among the greatest movies ever made?
-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Revvin' up your engine
Listen to her howlin' roar...
Metal under tension
Beggin' you to touch and go...
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
We were handed the flaming pile of Episode I when the potential was there for something great. I haven't heard any over the top criticism IMO.
Not here we haven't, but there have been comments like "George Lucas raped our childhood" (in song mind you) with the prequels. A little extreme in my opinion.
http://www.getalyric.com/mp3/lyrics/songs/hot_waffles-20993/from_ready
_to_laugh_we_don_39_t_care-46435/george_lucas_raped_our_childhood-218077/
I echo the sentiments that Som said here. The fact remains that kids watching the new trilogy react to it much the way that we reacted to the original trilogy. My six year old cousin as only seen the prequels and absolutely loves them, and personally I'd much rather have him love I, II, and III than not like Star Wars at all, or love some nonsense drivel that Hollywood puts out with the intent of captivating child audiences.
However, I can see why loyal fans would also be upset by the prequel films, but thats only because we were spoiled with the greatness that was the original trilogy. I don't think any new star wars film could measure up. That said, they aren't that bad, with the exception of a couple of spots which I am willing to look over, but again, I can see why many can not.
And I can also see the argument for George Lucas being responsible, even though I don't think its the case. At any rate:
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Quote:
Originally posted by two:Quote:I prefer a crassly materialistic description of "success" in Hollywood. Any other criteria stinks of philosophy, which is bad for business. I'm warning you about Hollywood's products: If you're looking for the meaning of your life, you best not find it in a TV show or while watching movies (even StarWars & Serenity). Go elsewhere, unless you're a critic like Roger Ebert. Maybe the meaning of life can be found in comic books? Excuse me, Graphic Novels.
Originally posted by lwaves:Quote:So your saying that the more money a movie makes the greater the quality of that movie?
Originally posted by two:
My criteria for quality in movies is always... Money Made.
... There are a lot of other factors to consider besides money. ...Quote:I already said something about Serenity and Joss Whedon - www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=42958#774121
Where does that put Serenity by following your criteria?
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
What a very sad outlook. It's attitudes like this that ensure we get a steady stream of crap.
Films can be good AND make money. But as long as suckers keep shelling out for crap, there's no incentive for studios to try and make better product.
I feel bad for you.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I'm not talking just impressions on people individually. He pretty much changed film making. He created techniques and technologies. He was an innovator.
We were handed the flaming pile of Episode I when the potential was there for something great. I haven't heard any over the top criticism IMO.
If you don't think the "Lucas raped my childhood" critiques popular amongst the more pathetic fanboys isn't over the top - you need perspective, lad.
Besides - the question was whether the expectation for him to re-invent the wheel a second time was unreasonable. I provided many examples why..... The answer is yes.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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