Star Wars for the next generation
POSTED BY: khambilo
UPDATED: Friday, May 7, 2010 15:28
VIEWED: 19417
PAGE 3 of 9
Quote:
Originally posted by DMI:
In the original, Greedo doesn't fire at all, Solo just wastes him.
Solo shoots because Greedo is pointing a gun at him. Even though Greedo never "fired", the act of pointing a gun at someone is justification for shooting him in self-defense anyway. There was no need for Lucas to redo it so that Solo would be acting in self-defense, he already was acting in self-defense when he shot Greedo in the original version.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
You hit it right on the head DMI. The whole concept of Solo is that he's a fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants kind of guy, rough and tumble. My guess is that he's an orphan (which the movie never goes into) who raised himself and has street smarts.
Survival of the fittest isall. He is the original sci-fi badass, he was the rebel with one cause - "what's in it for me." It made sense, also I don't remember there being a public outcry about Han shooting first, so yeah it made him a badass.
Plus it gave his change of heart and returning to help Luke more weight (although you could see it coming it didn't really matter because that's what good guys do). By Lucas changing that scene it just adds to my sentiment that he's lost his freaking mind. He's such a micromanager (perhaps in the beginning that's what made him achieve such a feat - Star Wars - when the odds were against him).
His attention to detail is pretty evident in the extras, or special features, in his DVD releases. It's what drove him to begin with, but he later (Episodes 1,2 & 3) allowed it to consume him and his end product suffered for it.
Hence going back and having Creedo shoot at Han, which just totally sucks the life out of his character and changes the landscape. Another hence is that it also sucked the life out of the prequel triliogy.
Don't get me wrong, I wanted to love the prequels and was genuinely excited (like waiting to open your presents at Christmas). So imagine my disappointment at Jar-Jar. Lucas overthought the trilogy and didn't have fun with it, consequently the movies were self indulgent and too self aware. It took itself too seriously.
Scenes that were meant to be funny just laid there, and scenes that were meant to be serious - well, were unintentionally funny. "Did he really just say that."
How many times did you here the phrase "I have a bad feeling about this." To me 4,5, & 6 are near masterpieces becuase it was fun as well as kick-ass.
Good point about the Captain's reaction to Dobbs. "I ain't got time for this shit" - BANG!
There's no doubt who's in charge plus we get that he's a might "tetched" in the head. He's Han Solo 2.0, a newer, more improved model of the badass good guy. The unpredictable rebel who lost his way and found it (but why, oh why kill Book?) in Serenity.
OMG I just realized something. Mal both lost and found his way in Serenity. Well technically he lost it in Serenity Valley and found it in Serenity - with his new unit, the crew. I never got that until now. I LOVE THIS SITE!
Thanks for letting me "bend your ear" guys.
SGG
Tawabawho?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I think people have gone way over the top as regards episode I, II and III. They're not that bad and y'know really they're just films.
My thoughts exactly.
Though could it be that people are just really critical about them because they have the Star Wars name? And can a prequel film for any franchise be as good as the original? It seems to me that this sort of thing goes on all the time, but maybe because the originals were so good and developed such a large fan base the new trilogy films were judged more harshly then the average prequel film.
And on anther note, give it 10-15 years and this debate will look much different. The kids that have grown up on the new trilogy have been captivated by it like those of us who grew up on the original trilogy, which leads me to believe that a generational gap effects how we perceive the films quality. (For instance, I don't have kids yet, but I am afraid that they would find the original series boring because they have too much dialogue, especially ESB and ROTJ.) And when this generation grows up and has children of their own, will they be more eager to spread the new trilogy over the old? I'm probably thinking way too far ahead...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Som! Don't give in to the Prequels- that leads to the Dark Side!!!
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I think people have gone way over the top as regards episode I, II and III. They're not that bad and y'know really they're just films.
The laughing Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
When in the Hells did the prequels ever explain anything?
When they explicitly identified Anakin Skywalker as Darth Vader and confirmed that Darth Vader is the father of both Luke and Leia.
The whole narrative of the original trilogy hinges on those two revelations --there's a reason why That Scene in ESB is one of the most famous scenes in all of cinema. It has to come completely out of the blue, yet make perfect sense only in hindsight, and it raises the stakes to a personal level for Luke (it's not just about killing a monster, it's about identifying with the "monster" and realizing that he has that same potential within himself).
By making it explicit, the prequels actually manage to rob the OT of that dramatic impact.
Precisely.
The laughing Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Well, according to the EU, he grew up on a pirate ship after being "adopted" by the Wookiee ship's cook (so yeah, if his parents were alive he didn't know them). Eventually he joined the Imperial Academy to be a TIE pilot (just like Luke wanted to do), but he got cashiered when he rescued a Wookiee slave and the two turned to smuggling to make ends meet.
Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
You hit it right on the head DMI. The whole concept of Solo is that he's a fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants kind of guy, rough and tumble. My guess is that he's an orphan (which the movie never goes into) who raised himself and has street smarts.
Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
Ok, that's a pretty huge thing, if you're starting with E1. (Well, I DID ask a question.)
Damn, that's a tough thing to fix for when I make my version of the prequels.
Hmmm....
Maybe the "two fathers, one son" thing, where Obi-Wan or Anakin could be the father, but we don't find out until later.
Well, my approach ( http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=8&t=16704) was to just not have Anakin renamed --he remains "Anakin Skywalker" until Mustafar, and we never see the rescue (and leave a few red herrings who could've been Vader --especially another Padawan for Obi-Wan [who mentioned having trained Vader], who could be seen as having contributed to Anakin's death ["Vader betrayed and murdered your father"]). When Palpatine greets Lord Vader, Vader mentions nothing about Padme --he lives only to serve his Master.
(Better still to let Anakin sacrifice himself for Obi-Wan, Padme, and his child; Anakin shall be remembered as a hero. Let Darth Vader be a new person, one without kindness, or mercy, or weakness, or hope. . . But for that tiny bit of Anakin that survives, in silence, hoping that his family escaped and will never be found.)
As for the kids, just have the birth (and Padme's death) offscreen; we know that Luke is Anakin's son, and the other could just be a female pronoun:
OBI-WAN:
Let me take Anakin's son. I'll find a place for him to escape the Sith's notice.
YODA:
And what of the other?
BAIL:
I'll take her to Alderaan. She'll be safe in my House.
The audience can assume that he means Padme. Years later, when we meet Leia Organa, we'll assume she's at most Luke's half-sister (that Bail and Padme grew closer).
The midichlorians can actually be a plot point if you approach them right: there's a correspondence, not causality (high midichlorians indicate Force-sensitivity, but don't cause it). There's room for there to be Force-users without high midichlorian counts, meaning that they would slip through the Jedi/Republic's screening process (you can scan for midichlorians, you can't scan for Force-sensitivity). Entire bloodlines of Force-users, left out of the Jedis' ivory temple, left to fend for themselves, learn for themselves, seek power for themselves. . .
-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
A few thoughts.
Sith: Why not? Vader has been referred to as a Sith canonically since the original trilogy. Sith and Jedi, they're both slightly odd made up words, why's one better than the other?
Han Shot First: Yep
ESB: Knowing that Vader IS Anakin Skywalker could actually increase dramatic tension, you know, "oh no, he's going to tell him! If Luke finds out, will he be able to resist?" It might not be the shock the people who saw the OT got, but that doesn't mean it's dramatic value is lessened. I prefer it the other way though.
Midichlorians: Bah, don't really care. It's a dumb name for it, I grant you, and unnecessary, but there's ALWAYS been suggestions that the Force runs in families, it was always supposed to be a genetic thing. Also, what with that whole can't marry/can't fall in love thing, it was pretty hard to keep bloodlines going.
That's where the Sith philosophy kind of had an advantage, they had no taboo about that. The Sith only have two Lords, who are taught by the previous two lords, all the way back to the first non-Sith who received the teachings from the Sith-species. But otherwise Sith is a school of thought and there's many practicers and covens who were probably out reproducing the Jedi, so the Jedi would go out and hunt them.
Apparently that whole restoring balance to the Force thing was to actually make it okay for Jedi to have families and be freer with affection and feelings, which is that Luke teaches at his new academy, and that gives the Sith less of an issue to gripe about.
Which trilogy I'd show first? Well, I do prefer the original trilogy, and don't like the prequels. But I think maybe I'd show the prequels. Though I'd edit out
1) the really badly done dream visions, since it's better to just show the reactions (like Obi Wan in the OT: "A disturbance in the Force")
2) the really bad romance lines (the scenes aren't bad, like that rolling in the grass one, but the dialogue is just dreadful)
3) probably stop the 3rd movie just after Anakin and Mace Windu head out to arrest Palpatine. That way it seems like the team failed to defeat Palpatine, was killed, and Anakin was maybe betrayed by Mace Windu. Or that General Grievous lives and eventually becomes Vader. That would be a good mislead for the ESB revelation. It unfortunately results in the loss of the Godfather-esque kill sequence, but at least it removes the craptacular birthing scene and keeps all the good secrets secret. It also allows Mace Windu to remain a badass, instead of the horribly pathetic shrieking death-by-falling he got.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I think people have gone way over the top as regards episode I, II and III. They're not that bad and y'know really they're just films.
I was eating lunch in my freshmen dorm cafeteria with all the other nerds of that hall, talking about star wars so as, if nothing else, to prevent the nerdy RA from babbling about Grace Park (this was when BSG just started), when this kid says the original trilogy is boring. Of course, this angers us all, but not as much as when he says he couldn't even get through them. Come to find out, he fell asleep during IV and never watched V or VI. His alleged love of stars stems solely from the prequels.
You might think I told this story to illustrate how some people love the prequels as much as the most of us love the originals. But I did not. After he left the entire table vowed never to speak to him again and we didn't.
It's a morality tale against liking and defending garbage.
------------------------
I pray for one last landing,
on the globe that gave me birth.
Let me rest my eyes on the fleecy skies
and the cool, green hills of Earth.
http://www.blogiversity.org/blogs/dmi/default.aspx
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I think people have gone way over the top as regards episode I, II and III.
Absolutely agree. Just look at some complaints here - complaints about character choices which are entirely human and consistent with their characters - but not COOL. People seem to hate the prequels as often as not for not delivering the films they spent 20 years imagining. Problem is - everyone imagined a different set of films, so there was no way to EVER meet those expectations.
People also tend to put the originals on a pedestal. Even Ford and Guiness complained about the hackneyed dialog in the original. Empire - now regarded as the best of the franchise, is the lowest grossing of the entire series, and received poor reviews at the time. And Jedi is a kiddiefied toy commercial/semi-remake of the first.
But since (the collective) we saw them as kids, and bonded to them - they will forever be superior. But kids who saw the Prequels first, love them just as much as we love the originals. You can never truly go back and view something through the eyes of a child again - and the biggest complainers don't get that.
That said - the prequels DO have some serious problems - mostly on the script level, because when it comes down to it, and by his own admission, Lucas is an idea man - and not much of a writer. But they're hardly the crimes against humanity some like to make them out to be.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Originally posted by DMI:
It's a morality tale against liking and defending garbage.
The laughing Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME