IMMIGRATION: THE NEXT BIG FIGHT
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Monday, June 3, 2024 14:49
VIEWED: 2296
PAGE 2 of 4
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I'm not saying give private info to private parties or even enforcement.
I'm saying that the SSA should give out EMPLOYER info to enforcement if EMPLOYERS are hiring illegal aliens. After all, EMPLOYERS can access the SSA database to see if the SS numbers are valid. If there are multiple people contributing to the SSA under one number then SOMEBODY has hired them without checking - or without caring that the number is invalid. Find out who. Go after them.
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Silence is consent.
That assumes anyone WANTS to go after them. SSA isn't complaining, because that's money that's being paid into the system two, three, or four times, and is only ever going to be paid OUT once.
Just thought it should be mentioned...
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
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Bah, streamline the immigration process.
"Hi, welcome to america, here's your W4!"
And then let those bastards at the IRS do something other than nitpick us for a while, given how ruthlessly efficient those assholes are.
Trust me, if they hadda pay the same hellspawned, life eatin taxes we did, they'd go runnin back over the border in a hurry.
-F
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"Just thought it should be mentioned..."
Oh I know.
And the reason why people are talking about better, more improved IDs is b/c no one wants to make the EMPLOYERS accountable for hiring illegals under invalid SSA numbers. Because that would be going after businesses and we can't have that.
I'm just pointing out that there is a brick-simple easy-to-administer solution to this that nobody seems interested in voicing. And I'm also pointing out the reason why.
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Silence is consent.
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Well, the problem is that the database available to employers (I've used it) only checks names against numbers and can only tell you if there's a mismatch, not if the same number is being used in three different states.
And remember the bicoastal people? There are legitimate reasons why one number might show up in two different states.
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What kind of information is available to the employer through the EVA ?
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Silence is consent.
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Well, it SHOULD be a pretty easy database search to have SSA do - look for any number that's being paid into in more than one state, and start weeding out from that. Turn some of it over to ICE or DepHomSec, and let them go around and verify who the REAL citizens are who are paying in, and who the impostors are, and they can handle the impostors at that point.
I'm not saying that would be the WHOLE solution, but it would probably go a good chunk of the way.
And if none of those departments can handle that kind of task, then why do we have them around in the first place? As Signy pointed out, this is PRECISELY the kind of thing that "big gubmint" should excel at. If we're going to have big gubmint, let's at least make some use of it!
Or admit that we really DON'T want all those illegals gone quite yet...
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
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Quote:
posted by Rue-
I'm just pointing out that there is a brick-simple easy-to-administer solution to this that nobody seems interested in voicing. And I'm also pointing out the reason why.
i think the social security cards original purpose was for employment purposes right? i dont see why we nned more then a Visa or other valid ID . my worry is once you accept the premise of a fereral ID card, it opens the door for unwarranted invasiveness. then the Govt will want you to carry it to enter libraries or schools or hospitals. then theyll say, well.. we cant be relied on to carry our IDs on us, at all times, so lets implant them! its definitately the slippery slope. and wouldnt they love to associate your person with what you buy, where your going? its too much
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
And the reason why people are talking about better, more improved IDs is b/c no one wants to make the EMPLOYERS accountable for hiring illegals under invalid SSA numbers. Because that would be going after businesses and we can't have that.
in my mind, i think securing the borders is probably the first step, given that we have a massive entitlement-wellfare state on the other side, (aldready bursting at the seams). figuring out some orderly way of identifying migrant workers, so that they dont settle and become recipients of government subsidies would be nice
but until we get the chance to dismantle this behemoth nanny state, the real problem to me is not so much the employers, but that the government has created a tax/regulatory climate here in America that prevents us from being competitive anymore. we're put in the position to export/import jobs. when Government burdens and penalizes industry to death, they cut corners where they can- thats why we dont produce or manufacturer hardly anything. look at our trade imbalance- there is no good reason for it.. we're the largest consumers in the world- imagine if we consumed our own products? we'd be exponentially wealthier. so figure out how to make it happen!!
the goal ought to be determining what tax/regulatory structure would be required for American industries to become domestically sufficient and competitive again. we have to address this if we're ever going to work on our trade deficit. what you dont want to do is what the current trend is, towards higher taxes, more regulation and more entitlements. because of this obsessive compulsiveness to micro manage everything, we end up suffocating ourselves. besides the obvious production/manufacturing deficiencies, an example of this would be we cant even go after our own oil resources, for heavens sakes.
i have to wonder if illegal immigration would be as big an issue if unemployment was at 2 or 3%- if they werent a burden on our (so-called) 'safety net'? it seems to me that if we were truly affluent, not in debt up to our ears, actually net-producers again, net savers.. that jobs and oppertunity would be so plentiful that the flow of inexpensive labor would be welcome.
but with the anti-capitalist sentiment taking over, its never going to happen. we'll be forever mired in debating the symptoms and never the disease. much of this is a result of unintended consequences from bad government policy. beyond the obvious over-regulation, there are policies like the minimum wage laws that arent helpfull. what good does a $9hr minimum wage do if a business cant hire someone at that? someone might do it for $5, maybe they could hire 2 workers at $10? someone might prefer that over no work at all.. and we all know some work isnt even worth the minimum wage. if a company cant hire legally at the state MW, the only person that benefits is the illegal worker
and we should definately look at reforming the federal drug laws, which would reduce the trafficking considerably. all these negative influences of government intervention! we have massive inflation in government subsidzed markets like energy, education, healthcare and housing, and we're working to give them
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Quote:I'd be LOLin' if it wasn't so, y'know, not so LOL worthy...
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Bah, streamline the immigration process.
"Hi, welcome to america, here's your W4!"
And then let those bastards at the IRS do something other than nitpick us for a while, given how ruthlessly efficient those assholes are.
Trust me, if they hadda pay the same hellspawned, life eatin taxes we did, they'd go runnin back over the border in a hurry.
The laughing Chrisisall
"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Well, it SHOULD be a pretty easy database search to have SSA do...
Mike, it is easy to do. That's not the problem. Believe that I have practical experience with how dedicated the Congress is to keeping SSA and IRS info from being used for anything but SSA and IRS purposes.
When I was working on a system to do statistical analysis of tax data, we had to sanitize the data so it was impossible to identify any individual taxpayer; even to the extent of making the system refuse to provide data for a particular type taxpayer if there were so few in a particular geographic location that it would be possible to deduce who it was. And this was within the IRS.
Unless Congress changes the laws to allow it, using SSA or IRS data to find either illegals or folks who hire them is a non-starter. I suspect that one of the problems the health care bill will hit is this emphasis on privacy.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Thanks for the clarification, Geezer. As with so many things, it would be easy to do, but there would be a HUGE outcry if anyone officially proposed doing it.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
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