Improbable Technology

POSTED BY: bluekieran
UPDATED: Monday, July 5, 2004 14:29
VIEWED: 12248
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BLUEKIERAN

Sunday, July 4, 2004 9:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RelFexive:

Incidentally... you all realise that the window must have been a force field instead of a mere holoprojection, don't you? A floating image would not keep out the wind or rain, or loud noises; it would not be anywhere near as good as a glass window otherwise, so it would be pointless. And naturally, it's one not strong enough to stop heavy things going through it, like people or chairs.

How does that sit with you all?

True - I assumed it wasn't just a projection, if only bevause it was disrupted by someone passing through it. As for the feasability argument, it's hard to figure install and upkeep costs, but we could just assume that the bar is rough enough that people fly through sufficiently frequently to make it worthwhile to install a "window" that doesn't need fixing each time :)

WAVE

Sunday, July 4, 2004 10:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Static:
One thing that we must remind ourselves of now and again is that Joss will toss certain principles out the window (intended pun) for the sake of good storytelling.

Well, I don't think Joss is a principle-tossing kind of guy, but I agree that the focus is, and should be, on the storytelling. The technological and social elements exist to support the story, not the other way around. As long as they remain consistent, I don't have a problem with the occassional implausibility.

However, within the context of this discussion , I think it's implausible that they have faster-than-light travel and gravity-control, but that they still use basic electro-mechanical systems. That gap seems a little too wide.

Also, at the rate our control of matter is improving, I don't think we'll even look the same in 500 years. Now, that would really screw the storytelling. Not to mention the budget.

We are not in the 8th dimension! We're over New Jersey!

BIKISDAD

Sunday, July 4, 2004 11:00 PM

Faster-than-light travel? Where was that on Firefly? One of my favorite things about the show is that they appear NOT to have it.

EDIT: Also, consider historical perspective. Think what was considered high tech 500 years ago and compare it to what we have now. What we now consider to be "high tech" will probably be considered very primitive in another 500 years.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

FIREFLEW

Sunday, July 4, 2004 11:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

I don't see the point in having your own stupid floating island, where your view is of other floating islands and you can't even go swimming...but what do I know?B]

Who wouldn't want a floating island?

Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

NOSADSEVEN

Monday, July 5, 2004 12:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Lets just hope Joss et al iron out those tiny imperfections for the movie.

Wow, I'm surprised to hear that these things are considered 'imperfections' at all. To me, these are exactly what the concept of the show was about...Not mistakes to be corrected, but ideas being shared. The contrasts of not only coexistent technology but also of culture were constantly being highlighted throughout the entire series, from Mal's concurrent use of chopsticks and tin cup, to the frontier bar with the forcefield window.

Certainly, Joss & Co. haven't outlined the actual course of future technology, but they have served to give us a rare alternative concept of what the integration of future technologies might be like. They've created a tangible future that need not be specifically accurate in order to be metaphorically correct.

~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

WAVE

Monday, July 5, 2004 12:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bikisdad:
Faster-than-light travel? Where was that on Firefly?

Well, I think it's implied. Serenity seems to be capable of interplanetary fight in terms of days, or weeks at most. The Alliance presumably has ships better than that. Given that travel is so easy, and that the Alliance is not only capable of projecting overwhelming force, but is actively doing so, could the Alliance, the Reavers, and bandits all co-exist in one system? Maybe. Maybe not. Analogies could be drawn with our own little world.

But if it is one system, where's Earth? They're certainly no longer in our neighbourhood. Without FTL they would have spent anything from decades to hundreds of years emigrating to other systems in sub-FTL ships. Could that travel-time, plus the time needed to create an obviously extensive civilisation, be included in the "within 500 years" timescale? Maybe.

(Now that I've though about it, their control over gravity, inertia, and energy means they could probably get pretty close to the speed of light, which makes the whole scenario a bit more reasonable)

Anway, having everything packed into one system just seemed a bit too constricting, and unlikely, to me. But, no problem.

We are not in the 8th dimension! We're over New Jersey!

BIKISDAD

Monday, July 5, 2004 1:47 AM

I don't think that speeds anywhere near that are necessary for interplanetary travel if the ship is powered by even a nuclear engine, as Serenity appears to be. Nuclear powered spacecraft, currently theorized, could easily travel 10 times faster than our current fastest spacecraft. At those speeds, a trip from here to Saturn would only take six weeks. From here to Mars would only take a few days - and we're talking speeds that are still way, way slower than light travel. That's why I thought they DIDN'T have light speed travel on Firefly. The travel times between planets for Serenity are consistent with speeds of several hundred thousand m.p.h.. If they were going at light speed, the several day trips they are making would only take minutes.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

STARPILOTGRAINGER

Monday, July 5, 2004 2:08 AM

Well, that assumes that the planets are all in the same solar system. If it's not, then even at FTL speeds it might be days between places.

I think an argument could be made for it either being FTL or STL. IMHO, the best argument for it being FTL is Out of Gas. If they were STL, even if they were waaaay out of the way, it shouldn't have taken more than a couple minutes for a distress signal to get to somebody. There's no reason for a signal to only have a limited range unless you're dealing with some FTL signalling device that has weird rules.

Star Pilot Grainger
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down."
LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/newnumber6

ANNIK

Monday, July 5, 2004 2:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wave:
Quote:
Originally posted by Static:
One thing that we must remind ourselves of now and again is that Joss will toss certain principles out the window (intended pun) for the sake of good storytelling.

Well, I don't think Joss is a principle-tossing kind of guy, but I agree that the focus is, and should be, on the storytelling. The technological and social elements exist to support the story, not the other way around. As long as they remain consistent, I don't have a problem with the occassional implausibility.

However, within the context of this discussion , I think it's implausible that they have faster-than-light travel and gravity-control, but that they still use basic electro-mechanical systems. That gap seems a little too wide.

Also, at the rate our control of matter is improving, I don't think we'll even look the same in 500 years. Now, that would really screw the storytelling. Not to mention the budget.

We are not in the 8th dimension! We're over New Jersey!

As mentioned before in this thread, we already have significant tech discrepancies in countries all over the planet ... no different in the future, I'm sure. The Have's will have a lot, the Have Not's will lack a lot more.

My mum grew up on an honest-to-goodness homestead without running water, electricity, etc. Their home was heated by a coal stove, which also provided them something to cook on. The bathroom was a shack out back. They walked to school or drove a carriage/sled pulled by horses. For her early years, they used a team of horses for plowing. I was shocked to discover that many other parts of Canada had a significantly higher level of tech than the region she grew up in ... but they did. In a pioneer area, the basics were the common stuff, the high-tech just wasn't part of the map yet.

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

WAVE

Monday, July 5, 2004 2:22 AM

Yeah, I agree. My original post was based on the assumption that they had to travel between solar systems, since it didn't seem likely that the whole Firefly 'verse was packed into one system, in which case FTL was necessary, but that its use for interplanetary hops wasn't feasible (for whatever reason).

Given that the writers allowed terraforming and gravity/inertia-control through, FTL seemed to be just one more Sci-Fi staple present to simplify the storytelling, even if it is a bit more far-fetched than the others.

The idea that they are stuck in one system is appealing though, since it avoids that whole FTL problem and increases the storytelling possibilities. Conflict between people who just can't avoid each other is a primary theme, after all.

We are not in the 8th dimension! We're over New Jersey!

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