Lonely Mal
POSTED BY: beatupplenty
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 15:14
VIEWED: 6590
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Originally posted by mal4prez:Quote:Ah - thanks! I remember now. Yeah, just like with this "angry" idea, it seems we all have different definitions. I don't see PTSD as necessarily being "nervous and jumpy" as you put it, so I think the label is fitting for Mal. The way you define it, it's not so fitting. But, label aside, I think we agree as to Mal's character.
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'm not sure if we've mixed it up exactly. :) I remember posting a thread asking if Mal had PTSD, because I come across that interpretation a lot and had kind of taken it for granted that it was established canon.
As an aside, there seems to be different types of PTSD. Two of my good friends, both LCSW, think I have some PTSD from a serious fall off my horse...and I agree with them. I have serious issues that make it incredibly difficult for me to ride a horse I don't know...and I constantly worry that horses I do know are going to act up and I'm going to get very hurt. I'm not nervous and jumpy, but there is sometimes debilitating worry and anxiety that I didn't have before the accident. :D
I'm not going to even think about Mal and PTSD...that's a whole kettle of fish that I don't want to open.(YEAH! for mixed metaphors! :D)
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Originally posted by mal4prez:
Rugbug - yes, there is definitely more that was intended for this short-lived series than what we see on screen. Us crazy ficwriters dig all that crap out and hash it over in a fairly embarrassing amount of detail. If you're interested: there's no doubt that Joss was going after a conflicted, injured anti-hero type of character. Mal was meant to be much darker than he's presented in the TV series. Joss lightened him up to try to attract a bigger audience (under Fox's orders).
Oh, this I know. Joss made Mal lighter...and I think Nathan did as well. Nathan's vibrancy carries through...even though he's "playing" him hollow. When I said I don't read supplementals I wasn't including things like commentaries/featurettes on the DVDs, etc.
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Originally posted by mal4prez:
And yes, disagreeing is fun. I don't at all mind having different ideas of a character. As long as you don't expect me to read any of those happy well-adjusted Mal fics - ew! LOL!
Promise.
I don't think Mal's exactly well-adjusted, but I don't think he'd be hard to live with either. What prompted my posting on this thread was the combo of the thread title, the first post and the previous thread on whether you could live with Mal that's been mulling around with me for a while (although I never posted on it b/c I was so far off the seeming consensus). Combined they give a very different picture of the character than I have always held. I have no problem with Mal...outbursts or not. I like honesty and honest reactions. What I couldn't live with is game playing, manipulation, deception, etc. Mal's got anger, he's disillusioned, he's wounded but none to such a degree that he is defined by those things to the exclusion of his MANY other good traits. As I said earlier, I'd have a harder time living with well-adjusted Kaylee or boring Simon.
I've never been able to read fan-fic of any sort.,..well-adjusted Mal or not. ;) Couldn't do it with the X-files, Buffy, Angel, etc. It just do not appeal to me at all for whatever reason.
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Fanfic doesn't appeal to you Rugbug? Good, my advice is to avoid it at all costs. It didn't appeal to me either for a while (even though it did) and when I finally admitted to liking it and reading it, fanfic ruined my life.
I think everyone agrees on the major points. Mal lost his identity during the war, or atleast its major elements: his family, his home, his cause, his faith. He is disillusioned. Whether or not this makes him angry is open to interpretation, I suppose, but it'd only be natural to be a little bit wrathful.
And as for loneliness, he has no one to share this experience with--not even Zoe, who only lost a war. Also, he is single and hunky, and the only way to explain this is deep emotional trauma, and loneliness, right? Hmmm...perhaps the Operative understands Mal. I wonder if there's Mal/Operative slash out there. I suspect there must be.
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Originally posted by mincingbeast:
And as for loneliness, he has not one to share this experience with--not even Zoe, who only lost a war. Also, he is single and hunky, and the only way to explain this is deep emotional trauma, and loneliness, right?
(warning...possible TMI)
:( If Mal is lonely, then I must be lonely and have deep emotional trauma, too. I don't think I'm lonely or have emotional trauma. I occasionally feel lonely, but it's rare. There are plenty of people around me for support, but I just don't need them that often. I do my best to support them when they need it. I just don't seem to "need" people the way others do. IMO, I'm single because I don't make time to go look for anyone. It's just not a priority. If I meet someone that interests me enough to re-arrange my life, I'll go out with them. But that doesn't happen very often (dearth of single, desirable men in both my town and the circles I run). I'm sure many people would look at me and say I was lonely because THEY would be lonely in my situation. But I'm not...so they would be wrong. :Shrug:
'Course, while I am single, I don't know if "hunky" would be a good descriptor (what is the female equivalent of "hunky"?).
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Ha, well, I thought he had PTSD before I wrote that thread. But I had this idea people being jumpy and nervous, which didn't seem to fit Mal until everyone explained to me about the other types and ways it can manifest. Now that I understand it better, I definitely think Mal has PTSD.
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my sarcasm is either too powerful, or too weak, i cannot tell. maybe mal isn't, like, lonely, is what i was hinting at: just because he is single and hunky doesn't mean he's not happy being single and hunky. also, there is no female equivalent of hunky. at all.
not sure how i feel about attributing mal's darker tendencies to PTSD. he's jumpy, and nervous, but aren't those good traits for life on the rim?
its an interesting avenue to explore, but for some reason, it seems dangerously close to claiming that Mal has ADHD, aspergers, autism, and bi-polar disorder. That the diagnosis overshadows the personality, you know? alright, that makes no sense. none at all.
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Originally posted by mincingbeast:
not sure how i feel about attributing mal's darker tendencies to PTSD. he's jumpy, and nervous, but aren't those good traits for life on the rim?.
Let's just put it this way...I'd have to be strongly convinced to even consider PTSD for Mal. I think he's changed, but PTSD? Not so sure about that.
BTW...your sarcasm came through..but sarcasm is based on reality. A lot of people think that way...so it bites a bit. ;)
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Sarcasm is not based on reality, so much as a reaction to it.
Totally see where you're coming from with Mal and loneliness. Folks assume that if you aren't presently hunting for someone to pair off with, or paired off, then you are a fucked up wretch and must weep your loneliness into your pillow every night. Maybe Mal likes his life just fine, or enough not to want to change it, at least.
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Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Totally see where you're coming from with Mal and loneliness. Folks assume that if you aren't presently hunting for someone to pair off with, or paired off, then you are a fucked up wretch and must weep your loneliness into your pillow every night. Maybe Mal likes his life just fine, or enough not to want to change it, at least.
Yes...this is what I think I said in my first post. It's not that he's not gittin' the women...it's that he's not lookin' and he doesn't seem upset about it. then I went a little tangential. :D
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Thing is, the fact that Mal still has remnants of being decent, funny, and able to encourage/comfort people instead of bully strongly suggests he didn't have a personality change, but rather developed a disorder.
Anyone who wants to read the thread, it's a long one, but I think some pretty good arguments are made.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=17&t=37331
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"Gender Differences in the Presentation of PTSD:
There are also differences between men and women in the presentation of PTSD. Women are more likely to have symptoms of numbing and avoidance and men are more likely to have the associated features of irritability and impulsiveness.
So, it's not just jumpiness.
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Originally posted by RugBug:Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Totally see where you're coming from with Mal and loneliness. Folks assume that if you aren't presently hunting for someone to pair off with, or paired off, then you are a fucked up wretch and must weep your loneliness into your pillow every night. Maybe Mal likes his life just fine, or enough not to want to change it, at least.
Yes...this is what I think I said in my first post. It's not that he's not gittin' the women...it's that he's not lookin' and he doesn't seem upset about it. then I went a little tangential. :D
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Whoops! I don't agree with that one at all.
When Mal is with Nandi, who unlike innocent-act-Saffron he seems to see as an acceptable romantic interest, he STILL tries to avoid the issue when Nandi outright is soliciting and seducing him.
We know he doesn't have a lack of interest (because of what happens next), but that initial hesitation suggests that Wash is right on. Mal has some intimacy issues, and he has a little bit of fear about people getting too close. At the same time, there ARE people he seems to want to get closer to, but it's hard for him to open up without becoming defensive.
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