Lonely Mal

POSTED BY: beatupplenty
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 15:14
VIEWED: 6590
PAGE 3 of 5

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT PAGE

BYTEMITE

Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:44 PM

Actually, that would be the wakizashi. Katana are used by samurai for war, and for cutting off the heads of people who have been issued a death sentence (who often FIRST did harakiri, "cutting the belly").

MINCINGBEAST

Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:03 PM

Drats, I am mistaken, but only partially mistaken, in that the katana does seem to play some role in the ritualistic suicide. As an ardent admirer of yukio mishima, i should know this. at least i got the katana part right. my first instinct was to call it a sai. i may have confused my ninja turtles...

Anyway, I still maintain that it is not a suitable weapon for a gentleman's duel, especially one fought over Malcolm Reynolds.

RUGBUG

Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:

also, rugbug, unless i am mistaken that is a katana. i distinctly offered to duel with pistols, or sabers. katanas are not for dueling, but rather ritualistic suicide.

I couldn't care less what it is suppose to be used for. I just want something sharp and pointy and long and will use it as I see fit.

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Anyway, I still maintain that it is not a suitable weapon for a gentleman's duel, especially one fought over Malcolm Reynolds.

Well, there's the problem. I'm no gentlemen. ;) No matter, though. I'm going home with Mal. It's only fair as I'm the only one who would enjoy living with him. ;)

(sorry...my post came off a little hostile. It's true that I don't care what the particular sword I posted is "suppose" to be for...but someone else might care.)

Can we all see why I might relate to Mal. ;)

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

MINCINGBEAST

Thursday, March 18, 2010 11:49 PM

your post didn't come off as hostile at all, but then again, i am kind of hostile myself, so maybe i just didn't notice.

never said that i wouldn't want to live with mal, just that mal is an asshole who is mean to people sometimes. on purpose. cringing boot-licker that i am, we'd get on well, i bet.

if you're no gentleman, then you have no business dueling. i suppose something rowdier and more plebian is in order, which is fine, because this way we won't need seconds. brass knuckles, 2 x 4 with nail, or broken bottle? take your pick.

BYTEMITE

Friday, March 19, 2010 12:03 AM

The weapon of choice is ALWAYS alligators!

MAL4PREZ

Friday, March 19, 2010 2:07 PM

Hi. Been over this topic plenty of times. Even mixed it up with Bytemite, I seem to recall. We may use different words, but I think we agree in the essentials. So I got to back her up on this. (Poop - "her" does apply, doesn't it Byte? Damn the gender-concealing internet!)

I do see your point, Rugbug, that Mal isn't inherently an angry person, in that he wasn't born that way. But any person's personality is more than what they were born with.

The inherent inner Mal may be a respectful, nice, church-going boy who'd never snap at Kaylee or put down Inara or insult Book. But Mal does all these things. He's just angry, and that inner anger boils over. At times, it makes him act in a way he may not intend and is often ashamed of. But he doesn't seem able to control himself. That's what bottled anger does to a person.

There are plenty of examples in the series, but if nothing else, go with what the writer and actor say. Any commentary by Joss will get into how Mal was screwed up by the war. It changed him in pretty fundamental ways. He not only lost to the Alliance and had his home and family destroyed, he was betrayed by his own side. And by God. He was not able to fight back against these horrible things that happened to him, and that leads to some pretty intense anger.

There's a quote that shows up on the FFF site header every once in a while... something about how Mal is a hollowed out guy who can lash out. Looking... Oh - there's this:

"He lost more than the war. He lost a sense of compassion and forgiveness. He lost his faith in God." - Nathan Fillion on Mal

Ah-hah! And here's the one I meant:

"He won't kill anyone unless he has to. Nice guys can only get so mad. But when you're hollowed out inside you can get pretty mad." - Nathan Fillion on Mal

As for loneliness: yes, I think he's intensely lonely. Brings to mind something Stephen King wrote in his Dark Tower series: A lonely person's biggest problem is finding enough time alone. (Something like that.) This makes a bizarre kind of sense to me. Lonely people aren't *forced* to be alone. Hell, there are other people all over the damned place! But the lonely are trapped by their own... issues, I guess. They seek solitude, even if it's painful to them.

I think Mal knows of his tendency to lash out, and he's incapable of trusting. This is his trap. He is lonely, but can't do anything about it. It's lucky for him that the honorable good-humored person he was born to be shows through, so his crew is drawn to him. Keeps him from really going down the drain.

Really didn't mean to write a long post, but Mal just makes me go on and on. Damn these romantically brooding heroes of fiction!

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

BYTEMITE

Friday, March 19, 2010 3:20 PM

I'm not sure if we've mixed it up exactly. :) I remember posting a thread asking if Mal had PTSD, because I come across that interpretation a lot and had kind of taken it for granted that it was established canon.

So I pretty much started off agreeing with the idea and interpretation of Mal as angry and lonely and bitter, with better qualities that "shine through" at times. The reason I posted that thread is because I was questioning my own assumptions, he doesn't tend to be the jumpy nervous type of PTSD, which is what I was familiar with. Just wanted to collate data, so to speak, see what other people thought and also see what symptoms and analogies and examples people came up with. Was trying to understand better.

I also practically wrote that thread hoping you'd come and elucidate your thoughts... *dimple* You do have one of the more well known Mal PTSD storylines out there.

RUGBUG

Friday, March 19, 2010 4:18 PM

I guess I just don't see Mal as an angry person. Does he have anger? Absolutely. But we all do. Every single one of us. And I'm guessing that most of us have lashed out on occasion, been nasty to loved ones, been aloof, etc.

IMO, an angry person is the guy that was intentionally nasty to me, cursed me out and then was nasty to the police officer. I was the one who did something wrong but it was minor and I was contrite and horrified that I had done it. He would not let up even though no harm had come to him. He wanted me arrested. I thought he was going to start hitting me he was so angry.

My friend's daughter was an angry teen. Oh my. The energy coming off of that one...and I'm not a big "aura/energy" person...but if ever there was an example of bad energy...she was it. Most people couldn't stand to be around her. She was bitter, hostile, nasty, sulky, rude...a real pleasure. I saw her again a few months back and I didn't recognize her...her whole demeanor had changed...and her energy had as well. She was no longer angry...probably still had some residual issues, but it wasn't the only thing to her anymore.

BTW, I don't do much reading/seeking out supplemental information on the show. Maybe I'm a bad fan, but for the most part, I take what I see in the eps and movie. (I have Those Left Behind, but that's it). I know Nathan has said that Mal is hollow, etc, but I don't see that. I just don't see how a hollow man could attract people/loyalty. He may have played him as his version of hollow...but it's not my version of hollow. :D

Anyway, I know I'm not going to convince any of you, especially those who have put a lot of thought into it. But that's the beauty of "art"...everyone gets there own interpretation (within reason) and there is no absolute right or wrong.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

BYTEMITE

Friday, March 19, 2010 4:44 PM

Quote:
I know Nathan has said that Mal is hollow, etc, but I don't see that. I just don't see how a hollow man could attract people/loyalty.

I wrote something once, probably a little bit fanciful for most everyone's tastes (well, it IS from Inara's perspective), but I think it's apt.

"He is a shell only in the sense that he is armor. They are in his heart and he shelters them; he is steel, twice re-forged, and his edges are all hard."

They all represent something in him, they're like broken glass pieces of himself he's gluing back together. He is angry, but he is incredibly loyal and would do anything for them. When you've earned that kind of loyalty, when you've come to care about someone like that who has been hurt so much already, it would be very hard to walk away from them, I think.

And he has good qualities besides loyalty, he's not completely unredeemable, as the people you describe (and the one girl got better! Maybe she wasn't as bad as all that, maybe she had a reason or was misunderstood? As perhaps Mal might be to people who don't know him well enough to see all of his good qualities?).

But anger and distrust are a very present part of him, that can rise to the surface with very little provocation.

Your view isn't an incorrect one, I think most of us (not entirely sure about mincingbeast) will agree that Mal is charming and ultimately a nice guy. He is just really, REALLY complicated too.

MAL4PREZ

Friday, March 19, 2010 4:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'm not sure if we've mixed it up exactly. :) I remember posting a thread asking if Mal had PTSD, because I come across that interpretation a lot and had kind of taken it for granted that it was established canon.

Ah - thanks! I remember now. Yeah, just like with this "angry" idea, it seems we all have different definitions. I don't see PTSD as necessarily being "nervous and jumpy" as you put it, so I think the label is fitting for Mal. The way you define it, it's not so fitting. But, label aside, I think we agree as to Mal's character.

Quote:
I also practically wrote that thread hoping you'd come and elucidate your thoughts... *dimple* You do have one of the more well known Mal PTSD storylines out there.

LOL! Well, I don't really think of it as a PTSD story, though I guess it goes there. I had to do some research of trauma-brain-stuff, but that was storyline I invented, and not canon.

Rugbug - yes, there is definitely more that was intended for this short-lived series than what we see on screen. Us crazy ficwriters dig all that crap out and hash it over in a fairly embarrassing amount of detail. If you're interested: there's no doubt that Joss was going after a conflicted, injured anti-hero type of character. Mal was meant to be much darker than he's presented in the TV series. Joss lightened him up to try to attract a bigger audience (under Fox's orders).

Again though - please get my meaning without getting stuck on a few labels. My definition of anger differs from yours. I don't equate anger with nastiness or cruelty, and I don't think having suppressed anger makes Mal a bad person. Or that he has to be a bad person to earn the label of "angry." But I do think that his behavior is beyond the every day bad moods that all of us experience. And no wonder, with what he's been through!

And yes, disagreeing is fun. I don't at all mind having different ideas of a character. As long as you don't expect me to read any of those happy well-adjusted Mal fics - ew! LOL!

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT PAGE