Real World Event Discussions

Are we animals, or something else?

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Monday, June 3, 2024 14:47
VIEWED: 10390
PAGE 5 of 12

KPO

Thursday, March 18, 2010 3:48 AM

Quote:
But what evidence do you have that animals don't have that soul?

I think they do have a 'soul', it's just not as complex as ours - mainly because their brain power is less. I suspect they only process very basic thoughts, by our standards.

When we learn to read animals' minds we will find out for sure. I imagine their thoughts will be simple, slow and inane. But each animal's soul will have a different character.

Interestingly Neanderthals are thought to have had just as much brain power as us - but I reckon our souls have always been more complex, because we're social creatures. Neanderthal tools have survived and been found, but no Neanderthal art, as I understand it. Would a Neanderthal feel as warmly towards animals as we (homosapiens) do? That's an interesting question.

I suspect it wouldn't feel the same sense of moral admiration and kinship towards dolphins and dogs as we do, to our fellow social creatures. But would it (did it) keep other pets? I rather think human beings are peculiar in this respect (it seems like strange psychology for a carnivore to evolve) but I could be wrong.

Heads should roll

PIZMOBEACH

Thursday, March 18, 2010 1:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
so if we are just animals... it's okay to have people as pets...

(/bitter snark ON)
Oh yes, we call them children.
(/bitter snark OFF)

-F

it hurts 'cuz it's true...

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

NIKI2

Thursday, March 18, 2010 4:33 PM

Quote:
We are defiantly superior in a survival of the fittest sense to other animals that have become extinct, but equal to those that have survived

I disagree. Other species fit IN with their world, instinctively or genetically; we change the world to fit our SHORT-TERM convenience, and along the way have made millions of other species extinct or removed them from competition with us or introduced species for our convenience which have caused others to go extinct, and in doing so screwed up the entire natural balance. Few other species have done that.

“We”, as a species, are not even winners in “survival of the fittest”, given that on our own individually we would be slaughtered by many other predator species. As in:

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You're measuring "intelligence" in HUMAN constructs, in HUMAN terms. How long can YOU live in the desert? A sidewinder can get along pretty darned well with no artificial means of support. Are you smarter because you have a car, or is the snake smarter for not needing one?

As to the right to eat others; if we’re in any way superior, we should have changed our ways once we realized we’re omnivores and don’t need to eat other species, which would have removed a lot of the damage we are doing in eating a mostly-meat diet.

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Everything alive today is a direct descendant of the very first cell that survived and reproduced. And though you and I may die, we are just small parts of a larger life which encompasses all life on earth.

I agree; but the Texas school board would have serious disagreement with your concept!

As for

Quote:
When we learn to read animals' minds we will find out for sure. I imagine their thoughts will be simple, slow and inane

Really? How much “mentality” do you think it takes to know how to measure complex water currents? Maybe about as much mentality as it takes to drive a car—subconscious recognition of what is and how to deal with it. I can think of quite a few humans whose thoughts are “simple, slow and inane” compared to other species. We went through all of this with DT (where IS DT these days? I miss him), and the question is both unanswerable and moot. Animals do so many things which call for complex mentality, we will never be able to judge them and compare them to us.

I’ve heard the joke about dogs welcome, kids much be on leash...I fully approve! I’ve known FAR more disruptive, downright dangerous kids than I have dogs...sorry Frem, not making a statement about what MADE them that way or that all are, but I’ve thought of that numerous times. My dogs are better behaved than most kids (or adults) I’ve met!

And there is NO doubt whatsoever that animals are far more "pets" than children. Their protections might not be good, but there is little, if any, protection for pets, and far more are treated as "objects to possess" than there are kids. Nonetheless, neither one deserves the status they are forced into.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

KWICKO

Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:30 PM

Quote:

When we learn to read animals' minds we will find out for sure. I imagine their thoughts will be simple, slow and inane.

Sounds like you think of animals as Republicans. :)

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

CHRISISALL

Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:

I think they do have a 'soul', it's just not as complex as ours - mainly because their brain power is less.

Oh, THAT is a low blow to Sarah Palin's youngest child!! So, his "soul" is not as "complex" as any other child? Brainpower is the measure of a SOUL now??? Were Hitler & Einstein's souls more "complex" than YOURS????
Elitist Humancentric balderdash!

The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

WHODIED

Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:38 PM

While I acknowledge that Agnosticism is the only rational conclusion, I can't help but view my shadow as a two dimensional representation of my three dimensional self, and I wonder: is there a four dimensional version defining me as it's shadow?

Also, I'm reminded of the best graffiti ever, which is, unsurprisingly, in Latin: Ignotus Per Ignotium.

Are we animals? Physiologically, I have to say yes, but is that the extent of it? No. The evidence is MORE than sufficient, in my opinion. As to what the evidence indicates we ACTUALLY are?

Well, I'm just collating data, as they say...

--WhoDied

_______________________

Yeah, we're mostly just giving each other significant glances and laughing incessantly.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WhoDied:

Are we animals? Physiologically, I have to say yes, but is that the extent of it? No.

Again, I have to say that acting like we are "beyond" animals is an egocentric idea IMO.
Cannot animals do things we cannot?
Cannot animals sense things we cannot?
Be happy to be an animal. Don't compartmentalize.
Revel in you uniqueness, but don't proclaim absolute superiourity because of it.
As we are the race of mankind, also are we the lifeforms of Earth.

You eat a fish, one day a shark might eat you; it's all good.

WHODIED

Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by WhoDied:

Are we animals? Physiologically, I have to say yes, but is that the extent of it? No.

Again, I have to say that acting like we are "beyond" animals is an egocentric idea IMO.
Cannot animals do things we cannot?
Cannot animals sense things we cannot?
Be happy to be an animal. Don't compartmentalize.
Revel in you uniqueness, but don't proclaim absolute superiourity because of it.
As we are the race of mankind, also are we the lifeforms of Earth.

You eat a fish, one day a shark might eat you; it's all good.

I don't believe that we are beyond animals in the sense your quote marks seem to imply. (And here I hear a Badger saying, "I'm above you. Better than.") But I do believe that we are like the cortex of the Earth Mind (if you will,) and as such, have dominion over, while still answering to, the reptilian brain and others. Much as (not my book) the bible suggests that we have been given the husbandry of the earth.

Is it significant that most of the really important numbers we've discovered are irrational? 1.618; 2.718; 3.141; et al; Or is it only indicative of our arbitrary system of account? I don't know, but there's no evidence I've seen that suggests Ms. Kitty Fantastico contemplates such things.

As far as I know, maybe she's the fortunate one, for that.

Ultimately, be there no heaven, no bardo, no braman, still the words of Ben Parker ring in my ear, and what greater power (barring geophysical and extraterrestrial FORCES,) is there than sapience?

I say were ARE more, I do NOT say we're better.

--WhoDied

_______________________

Yeah, we're mostly just giving each other significant glances and laughing incessantly.

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:59 PM

Well, the leash thing, I think there's good and bad in that - didn't used to, I thought it was a horrific thing, initially...
And it CAN be, oh indeed, having seen kids practically dragged that way gives me the shudders.

But I was at Kings Dominion once, and there was this lady with a small girl, and they had some kinda retracting tether which seemed less likely to catch on stuff or trip someone up - and given the crowd density and general chaos, it was all to easy to see how a small child could be swept away in an eyeblink, since despite the tether (which seemed a backup measure) the mother was holding the girls hand for the most part - and when she needed both hands to do something, like get cotton candy, I was watching the childs reaction...

Who would, ever so many seconds, reach back and grab the tether to make sure it was still attached, and that mommy was in range.

The kid did NOT see it as a leash, the kid saw it as a safety line, a life line - and in that moment I realized those things were not wholly evil, it was just the purpose and method of their use often was.

I still taunt my ex about getting one, even when we were together, cause she has a BAD case of "Attention Defici-OOOh shiny!" goin on, and a fetish for gadgets of all kind (I swear she's a Ronco dream customer) which she uses maybe twice and then pitches in a closet somewhere...

So, all it takes is to look away for ONE FRIGGIN SECOND, and ya look back, and she's GONE, which involves me quartering and patrolling the store to find her, or letting our a frustrated (and impressively accurate) Meow so she knows where *I* am and to come find me.

We still do our shopping together, since we're still friends and we're really the only ones who'll ever put up with each other for very long.

-F

CHRISISALL

Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WhoDied:

As far as I know, maybe she's the fortunate one, for that.

Imagine another more advanced species than us constantly and compulsively calculating Pi in their heads as they head from wormhole to wormhole in astral form searching for new ways of math to make them happy.

'More" than us? Or just so very different that it's hard to contemplate?

Is the simpler being the more fortunate?

Do chimps laugh at our complexity? Do dogs disregard our complexity?

Do we take it too seriously sometimes?

Do cheetahs marvel at their bursts of speed? Or do they just do what they do, with gusto?