Episode order

POSTED BY: christhecynic
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 21:10
VIEWED: 9279
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DIGIFICWRITER

Thursday, July 1, 2004 8:13 AM

Watch 'em in any order you like, but realize that Joss HAS established a canon order for viewing them, which you can follow if you like.

Take my love
Take my land
Take me where I cannot stand
I don't care
I'm still free
You can't take the sky from me
Take me out to the black
Tell 'em I ain't comin' back
Burn the land and boil the sea
You can't take the sky from me
There's no place I can be
Since I've found Serenity
But you can't take the sky from me

CHRISTHECYNIC

Thursday, July 1, 2004 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DigificWriter:
Watch 'em in any order you like, but realize that Joss HAS established a canon order for viewing them, which you can follow if you like.

That's exactly my point, when was the last time canon was followed? The truth is that some canonical stuff is less reputable than stuff that was declared heretical centuries ago.

If you believe in the infallibility of the bible that means that what god himself says doesn’t go, Joss is god here. So, because he is god here, and because you yourself said what he says is only as good as canon, the subject is open to debate.

RHUTTNER

Thursday, July 1, 2004 1:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:

Quote:
no one knew she was going to leave when OIS was shown.

That's not quite true, as in not at all. A lot of people knew exactly what she was talking about when it aired.

That's not true. When OiS aired there was nothing in it that suggested she planned to leave. The reshot scene suggested she was getting frustrated with not being able to work and 'threatened' Mal that she would leave unless he went to places where she could find work.

The original scene depended on the viewer having seen HoG. Since it didnt air, then the original scene made no sense. In that scene it was clear she was leaving because they talked about renting the shuttle and telling the rest of the crew.

Quote:

When we found out she said, “I’m leaving” at the end of the pervious episode all made sense. After all first she say’s she’s leaving, then she talks about leaving. Then events transpire that make her not leave. What events? Well first thing she says is that they haven’t been to a decent planet, no place to drop her off.

Actually, the word decent referred to finding work: This is the third planet in a row where I can't find decent clientele.

The drop off point was about her leaving at New Melbourne whose only real value is "it's a layover point for almost every planet this side of the system".

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RHUTTNER

Thursday, July 1, 2004 1:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by karenkay99:

remember they had to refilm the bit on OIS between inara and mal coz HOG hadn't aired. no one knew she was going to leave when OIS was shown. the bit on the dvd is the original film.
sounds like they were jumping through all kind of hoops to make fox happy and it just confused things.

You are correct about this. But no one is really questioning the order of Hog before OiS. The question is does Trash/The Message come before or after Hog/OiS.

There are too many things that don't make sense for them to come before, but theres a plot hole if they come after.

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KARENKAY99

Thursday, July 1, 2004 5:08 PM

sorry about the arguin' comment. i was just trying to be funny. i'll keep trying. i really love the arguin' (discussions) here.

and i agree, watch it however you enjoy it.

i'm just saying i like the dvd order (joss' order). i like OIS last. it's satisfying, you know. river has been accepted. simon & kaylee almost kissed. they will next time, i'm sure. inara hasn't left so anything could happen. book is still working on something, he'll be ok. jayne will never change. wash & zoe will be ok too. and mal will keep on doing what he does, taking care of his serenity family, one day (danger) at a time.

"They say the snow on the roof is too heavy. They say the ceiling will cave in. His brains are in terrible danger."

DIXIEFLATLINE

Friday, July 2, 2004 2:13 PM

Two things here:

1) I'm much inclined to the theory that Jayne has heard the stories of River's mind-reading (going all the way back to "Safe"), and is joking about it in "The Message". "Girl's a mind-reading genius and she can't even figure out how to eat an ice planet" sounds to me like "You guys say she's so amazing, but..." So he's making fun of Simon's belief in her, but he hasn't been convinced himself yet (which happens in OiS).

2) Not sure if anyone else noticed this, and I still don't know if it's significant or a coincidence, but... In "Trash", there's one shot out a window with ships flying by, and one of them looks a heck of a lot like Jubal Early's ship. Tiny fuselage, huge forward-swept batwings. I just gave back the DVDs to the friend who lent them and got me hooked, and I don't have my own copy yet, so I can't double-check this right now, but I think it's out the window of the room with the Lassiter. Could be an unintended similarity, could be a re-use of a CGI model, or it could be that Early (who's been "tracking them since Ariel") is close behind them when they're on Bellerophon, but hasn't seen the opportunity to make his move yet. Which would obviously put "Trash" before OiS in the chronological sequence.

RHUTTNER

Friday, July 2, 2004 3:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DixieFlatline:
Two things here:

1) I'm much inclined to the theory that Jayne has heard the stories of River's mind-reading (going all the way back to "Safe"), and is joking about it in "The Message". "Girl's a mind-reading genius and she can't even figure out how to eat an ice planet" sounds to me like "You guys say she's so amazing, but..." So he's making fun of Simon's belief in her, but he hasn't been convinced himself yet (which happens in OiS).

What stories? From who?

Remember the actual mention of River being able to read minds came from OiS. Mal and Book suspected this prior, and Zoe, Wash, and Jayne seemed surprised at the suggestion.
There was no discussion between the others about it before Kaylee told them what happened in War Stories.

Another thing to consider regarding the order is Kaylee. I will have to review T/TM to see what interaction, if any, there was between Kaylee and River, but keep in mind Kaylee is afraid of River until the end of OiS. There is a part of the HoG shooting script that didn't make it to the final cut that shows she is still afraid of her. If Kaylee doesn't show fear of River in T/TM then that suggests they come after OiS.

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DIXIEFLATLINE

Friday, July 2, 2004 3:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rhuttner:
What stories? From who?

The obvious one to me (also cited somewhere above) is that Simon has to have given some explanation after "Safe" as to how the villagers got the idea that River was a witch. Not saying that he believed it really was mind-reading at that point, or that anyone else on the crew believed it either, but enough to plant the idea that the villagers believed it. That would be enough for Jayne to make a joke about it later.

Haven't read the scripts, so the bit about Kaylee in HoG is news to me. Interesting.

RHUTTNER

Friday, July 2, 2004 3:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DixieFlatline:
Quote:
Originally posted by rhuttner:
What stories? From who?

The obvious one to me (also cited somewhere above) is that Simon has to have given some explanation after "Safe" as to how the villagers got the idea that River was a witch. Not saying that he believed it really was mind-reading at that point, or that anyone else on the crew believed it either, but enough to plant the idea that the villagers believed it. That would be enough for Jayne to make a joke about it later.

Haven't read the scripts, so the bit about Kaylee in HoG is news to me. Interesting.

At most Simon would have had to tell Mal, not the entire crew. But there is no evidence to suggest that Simon said anything.

If you're interested in the Hog Script, you can read it here: http://www.fireflyfans.net/feature.asp?f=41

The part I referred to is:
KAYLEE
I'll talk to Serenity, see what she's
got we might use.

MAL
Good. And we better find some--

River is suddenly at their side

RIVER
It's starting.

Kaylee gives a little STARTLED JUMP, unseen by Mal.

MAL
That's a sure fact. But time is on
the enemy's side so--

PETALINE
(pained yelp)
Dr. Tam--!

Are you an official Browncoat? If not, go sign up gorram it! http://browncoats.serenitymovie.com/serenity/?u=rhuttner

EVILTOBZ

Friday, July 2, 2004 3:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rhuttner:
Quote:
Originally posted by DixieFlatline:
Quote:
Originally posted by rhuttner:
What stories? From who?

The obvious one to me (also cited somewhere above) is that Simon has to have given some explanation after "Safe" as to how the villagers got the idea that River was a witch.

At most Simon would have had to tell Mal, not the entire crew. But there is no evidence to suggest that Simon said anything.

but we do know that travel between planet(thingies) takes up a whole bunch of time, so whilst he could have avoided the questions, and whilst we have no evidence of them talking about it it would be fair to assume they did.

---------------------------------------------
eviltobz - that's lowercase gorram it!

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