General Discussions

Just an average show

POSTED BY: ladyhawk33
UPDATED: Friday, February 26, 2010 12:41
VIEWED: 9398
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LADYHAWK33

Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:16 AM

Just got through watching the Firefly series. Here's my impression.

Macgyver < A-team < Xena < Firefly < Northern Exposure

(all the above) < BSG < The Lost Room < Rome < Band of Brothers < The Wire

The show's witty, sarcastic, even zany humor is probably it's biggest appeal for most of its fans, but also a big limitation. I appreciate the light-hearted approach to sci fi. But the sometimes clownish comic relief ruins it's credibility as a drama. It makes it seem less real, less believable, and therefore less relevant. For example in episode 10, when Captain Mal and Wash are bickering to each other about Wash's wife while they're both tied up and being tortured...funny, yes, but damn ridiculous. Don't get me started on the Jaynestown episode. I constantly find myself cringing when I see something blaringly cliche (and there is a lot of cliche moments), when I'm not cringing from hearing someone cursing in Chinese, which ends up being 3-4 times an episode.

When realism isn't respected, it makes it hard to feel real dread in the moments of the show that we're suppose to. You never feel that any member of the crew is in any real danger when they are on a smuggling mission. You know at the end of each episode everyone who matters will return safely and everything go back to the way it was. Compare that to a show like The Wire where you feel like anyone could die in a given episode. Therefore the tension is heightened and you are grabbing onto your seat tighter. I don't think I ever grabbed my seat with Firefly. The difference is Firefly is using an old formula for storytelling similar to shows like Xena and Hercules where the safety's left on.

Though it's not really fair to compare a show like Firefly to the recent serialized show like Lost, BSG, The Wire, Rome....because Firefly isn't really a serialized show. All of it's episode wraps itself up neatly at the end and doesn't tie into the next. Most episodes can be watched without viewing the previous. Serialized shows all have a strong overarching mystery or story that keeps you coming back and at the end of each episode there is a small cliffhanger. While Firefly does have an interesting overarching story about Simon and his sister...it not prominent enough to put it in the same category as the previously mentioned series. In the end, when judged on it's own, Firefly is a decent series to watch, and I'm glad I did.

It really just comes down what kind of drama you prefer; I for one, welcome the new wave of realism being injecting into tv series these days. I think that's the reason you hear a lot of talk about how good TV has gotten recently.

ECGORDON

Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:32 AM

Firefly would have been a lot more serialized if it had continued.

It's still my favorite tv show of all time, bar none.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:34 AM

Ouch. Well, you're definitely entitled to an opinion, but I have to wonder why, if you thought the show was average, that you bothered to make an account on a fansite for the show? It's like ringing a doorbell, introducing yourself, then taking a dump on the living room floor. I'd kind of like to know what reaction you were expecting here.

So, specifically. The problem with what you're comparing with is first of all, three of those shows come from HBO. HBO tends to cultivate a very different mood than a network show, and you can get away with a hell of a lot more. Granted, that's not as true now, with shows like LOST, but when Firefly was made, it WAS true. I'm not sure it's really fair to compare them.

You also have to realize that Fox asked Joss Whedon to significantly lighten Firefly up, which I suspect contributed a great deal to it's popularity. One of Joss Whedon's other shows, Dollhouse, is a lot more serious and many of his fans thought it was hard to get into and kind of boring. So this humour appeals to a subset of people. Guess you're not one of them, and that's fine.

A problem I'll admit Firefly faces is that ultimately it's a show about a spaceship. There are quite a number of those. Perhaps the humour was an attempt to stand out.

Some of us around here think this show is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and even though I'm willing to admit it might have it's flaws and limitations, I'm one of them. And that's not coming from any preexisting Joss Whedon fannishness, I hadn't even heard of him until about a year ago. The reason I'm here is I saw Firefly, and I fell in love with the dialogue. For about a year now, I haven't been able to become interested in anything else. It just kind of took over me. And that's coming from someone who hates watching television or going to movies because I feel like it's a waste of time.

As for safety, it only got half of a season. And if you know Joss Whedon at all, actually you know that at any given time, any one of his characters could die. A lot of people thought he really WOULD kill Kaylee in the pilot, simply because Joss has it in for cute, innocent things.

And that's to say NOTHING of the Tim Reaper, who was one of Joss' cowriters.

STORYMARK

Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:00 AM

Well, while I certainly don't agree with this opinion, I do think it's a reasonably even handed look at the limitations of the show, and why it just doesn't appeal to some people.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:07 AM

I think you're right, Storymark. I know I've had trouble interesting some people because they thought it was too cornball and mood whip-lash at times.

KPO

Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:12 AM

Quote:
But the sometimes clownish comic relief ruins it's credibility as a drama.

It's an adventure. Like Indiana Jones. It sounds to me like adventure maybe isn't your thing - fine, but be conscious when you're watching one that you're not going to get gritty, Wire-style 'realism'. Rather expect style, wit, heroism, romance, action-filled plot etc.

Firefly is a brilliantly scripted + acted, intelligent, sensitive, funny, sci-fi, adventure.

If not all of the above floats your boat expect some of its brilliance to be lost on you.

Heads should roll

ANOTHERSKY

Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:14 AM

I think you do have a legitimate point about the humor.
Sometimes I found myself extremely irritated at the flippancy. Certain lines I would actually have cut because I felt it interrupted the mood also.

But the War Stories torture scene was actually the one place I didn't.

Sometimes life gets really, really weird. Absurd, actually.

I saw that as a poking fun at every other torture scene I've seen in any other tv show or movie. You have to go "wait a minute..." to get to the emotional content under the fun and games frequently--if you do it with this scene realize that Mal is doing this to keep Wash from cracking. Hassling him about the one thing that gets him more scared and angry than great physical pain, even if it causes lines like "oh, so it's the guy-she-never-slept-with thing!".

I'm one who's very for extreme realism, but the way I see it, firefly the show was about "conceptual" realism---ie, a hypothetical world twisted by the heaviest dose of ironic content and viewpoints I've ever seen. It's like the "Theatre of the Absurd" existentialism concept made entertaining instead of just depressing.

Realism: All the emotional bits except "OMG I'm scared anyone could die at any moment" are there. I think they just had a different mission statement: The last shot of the opening is a spaceship thundering over a herd of wild horses.

Well, the "safety is left on"---until we hit Serenity. Oops, two, in 15 minutes of film. Remember, firefly is the first 14 eps of the first season. Given "Jossing" is killing off beloved mains, I would have expected to have seen some interesting things come the never-realized second season.
__

Going for a ride.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:17 AM

Proof!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Jossed

Quote:
Note: In some circles, the term "Jossed" refers to a gutwrenching main character death, which Joss Whedon is also famous for. This definition entered the populace when during a Q&A session at an Australian university, a young Aussie girl noted his tendency to do horrible things to on screen couples, and to much laughter, said "We call it getting 'Jossed.'"

KWICKO

Thursday, February 25, 2010 5:06 AM

Yeah, heavy realism in a show set aboard a space freighter just isn't very... realistic, ya know what I mean?

And if you don't get the idea of flippant humor at very tense (or even life-or-death) moments, then you'll never make it on my bank-robbing team.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

LADYHAWK3

Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:02 AM

Thanks for the insights into the show. You all have done a good job chipping to helping me appreciate the show without deriding me terribly.

You're right, the dialogue is quite enjoyable at times and I'm one to appreciate good dialogue; I find myself experiencing many laugh-out-loud moments while watching this show. The characters are good, production value high. I give Whedon props for leaving aliens out of the storyline; and avoiding mixing muppet-looking characters to the show.

But I guess when you hear other people talk about a show and use terms like "perfect" or "best show ever" (not anyone on this thread mind you) you expect something more. I realize that's just some of that hyperbole you see so often days. I guess my main problem with the show was I wanted to fit it into a genre, which wasn't really the show's fault. I never really got the point of mixing sci fi with western (I'm sure that's a topic covered many times). If Joss Whedon had tweaked it to make it a purely western, it would probably be the best western series this side of Deadwood. As a Sci Fi series I have problems with it, though. For one, it doesn't force you to think about the big issues that Sci Fi normally does. I like my Sci Fi a bit more on the "What if" side. But if you just use the term "adventure" like KPO suggested, it's actually quite a nice little show. In any case I would watch this show over something like Hercules any day of the week.

@Kwicko-- realism is the way in which you tell the story, the story itself doesn't have to be realistic. Battlestar Galactica did a great job fusing realism into it's science fiction. But don't mistake me for a BSG fanatic. I liked BSG, but it wasn't without it's problems too. I thought it was a bit too overly-dramatic at times, everyone just seems wound up way too tight. I know, accuse BSG of being too dramatic and Firefly of being too whimsical. There's just no pleasing me :p