We can't know God's divine plan *warning- 'R'-rated rant ensues*

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Friday, February 26, 2010 19:16
VIEWED: 7764
PAGE 3 of 5

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Originally posted by Storymark:
It "seems" logical.... huh.

To me, it "seems" just as "logical" (as in, there is little to be applied in the conversation) that we are just a natural occurrence.

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Yeah, what is unnatural is the 'perfect placement' of everything on this earth and in our solar system.
The distance of the sun from the earth is perfect for us. Any closer, and we all be living underground. The 'hardwiring' of human sex drive. Any more and we be fiends(Tiger Woods) any less, and our numbers would eventually wither and die. Just enough to keep our species alive and kicking for the next few hundred thousand years.
Enough water(For 95% of countries anyway) for us to live comfortably. The perfection of the seasons, our life cycles in general, our nervous system, our ability to love.
If this is random I'd give my life to comprehend a planned order to the universe.

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That only applies if you assume life MUST have developed on earth, and nowhere else. Otherwise, with the VAST number and variety of planets and other bodies in the universe, statistics indicate that the right conditions were bound to exist somewhere.

But those bound by religious dogma tend to assume that Earth really is the center of the universe, and for those things to happen HERE proves divine intervention.

But then, if you apply actual logic.... poof.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Originally posted by Storymark:
That only applies if you assume life MUST have developed on earth, and nowhere else. Otherwise, with the VAST number and variety of planets and other bodies in the universe, statistics indicate that the right conditions were bound to exist somewhere.

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Intriguing isn't a big enough word. Good point.

In the 90's some scientists theorized that there are more stars in the universe than grains of sand on the earth.

That put into proportion just how small(and I mean SMALL) we really are. I was humbled, and will never, ever feel we are just a natural occurrence.

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posted by OPPYH:

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In the 90's some scientists theorized that there are more stars in the universe than grains of sand on the earth.

That put into proportion just how small(and I mean SMALL) we really are. I was humbled, and will never, ever feel we are just a natural occurrence.

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But that's the whole point. We are one planet out of untold billions. Even if the were thousand to one odds of any one planet having life, the odds would still be in life's favour. Given the size of the universe, it's a foregone conclusion that the right conditions for life exist somewhere. Even if we are alone, it is natural for us to exist.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Originally posted by ecgordon:

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Originally posted by Corncobb:
ecgordon wrote

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It seems logical that there is something behind the creation of the Universe

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Sorry, really, but it isn't logical. According to logic, you cannot explain any event by attributing it to something even more inexplicable (such as a deity). That is Infinite Regress, and is a counter-logical argument.

I don't mean to be rude, or pick on your beliefs. I'm open minded enough to admit that we as human beings don't know everything, and that I could be wrong in my belief that there is no god, just cosmic accidents. I even admit that logic may not always have the answers - occam's razor isn't as sharp as it used to be But to say that the notion of our being created by higher beings is logical is technically innaccurate.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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But don't forget that I followed that statement with the fact I don't attribute any anthropomorphic properties to whatever it was that is responsible for the creation. You can't offend me because I prefer to say that I don't have any beliefs because I'm not intelligent enough to understand the essence of what that sort of deity might be like. All religions, and even most philosophies of a more secular nature, have as their purpose an attempt to explain the unexplainable.

If it is not logical to assume a creator then it certainly isn't logical to assume otherwise either.

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I think you misunderstand. A deity doesn't need to be anthropomorphic to be unlikely to exist. You can say that the earth was created by a deity, and that cannot be proved or disproved, but it is still not logical, in the correct usage of the word, because it does not explain anything. You are attributing the existence of one incredibly improbable complex thing to the existence of something else that is infinitely more complex and infinitely less probable. I'm not saying it is impossible, or even an unreasonable guess, I'm just saying that you cannot arrive at that conclusion through pure logic, i.e. by attributing the actual rules of logical deduction, because you are still left with explaining something inexplicable. Whereas the Big Bang theory, while still flawed, has the virtue (from a logical perspective) that it does not lead to Infinite Regress, as only simple objects were required to trigger the big bang.
I'm not saying that makes the Big Bang more likely than creationism, it's just the conclusion that logical deduction leads us to. If goldfish were to consider where their tank came from, it would actually be correct for them to assume a more advanced being created it, but they still couldn't arrive at that conclusion via logic.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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i've outgrown the impulse to try to convince theists to go apostate, and give into godless existential despair. there's really no point in trying to argue god out of people, or into people. no sympathy for anyone credulous enough to believe in anything, planned or otherwise. edit: but for sargon. believe.

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Originally posted by Zeek:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Life is a terminal condition. No one here gets out alive.

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psssh we're all immortal until proven otherwise.

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That ranks right up there with the supposed "infallibility" of the pope. Color me reactionary, but I'd say death is a bit of a failing... ;)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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