Iran
POSTED BY: GinoBiffaroni
UPDATED: Saturday, March 14, 2026 23:01
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Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I don't trust ANYONE with nukes, why should I trust Iran?
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But if you were surrounded by countrys with nukes,
and you had a pair with the record of Israel and the US making daily threats against you... ( and that hostility predates the nuke power program )
Would you not want to protect yourself ?
The best solution would be Pakistan, India, and Israel giving theirs up and the US getting out of the region... but that likely will not happen...
what do you do ?
That's the rub isn't it? To pursue nukes only makes that target on your back larger. To pursue higher grade enrichment Publicly only insights the US - that seems a big flaw in the reasoning of "if you want to protect yourself..."
I'd come out in favor of peace and win the world's favor. I know, quaint!
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Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I don't trust ANYONE with nukes, why should I trust Iran?
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com]
But if you were surrounded by countrys with nukes,
and you had a pair with the record of Israel and the US making daily threats against you... ( and that hostility predates the nuke power program )
Would you not want to protect yourself ?
The best solution would be Pakistan, India, and Israel giving theirs up and the US getting out of the region... but that likely will not happen...
what do you do ?
That's the rub isn't it? To pursue nukes only makes that target on your back larger. To pursue higher grade enrichment Publicly only insights the US - that seems a big flaw in the reasoning of "if you want to protect yourself..."
I'd come out in favor of peace and win the world's favor. I know, quaint!
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
You know the phrase you can't fight city hall ?
Well if they ended their public arguments and move for nuclear power ( remember they say they are not making weapons ), what is to stop the US from coming out with more RapFacts and accuse them of building weapons anyway... like say Iraq ?
Besides, it is now a matter of national pride to get their nuclear power generation plan off the ground, to back down would make them look all manner of stupid to their own people.
I think its better they have nukes, it would shut down the sabre rattling against them and give them a voice in the region the US could not so easily ignore, and that voice would represent alot of folk who have no voice in the US installed regimes.
edit to add, like the post at the beginning, over 40 countrys already enrich Uranium as they want to... why pick on them ?
Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"
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Gotta agree with Gino, Piz. Iran NEEDS nuclear weapons, and soon. Otherwise, we might decide to invade. As we've already shown with Iraq and North Korea: If we THINK you're trying to get them, we'll invade; if we KNOW you already have them... we'll talk.
The only way Iran gets a seat at the big boys' table is if they have nuclear weapons. Those aren't THEIR rules; they're ours. At least that's the example we've set.
I'm not more scared of a nuclear Iran than I am of a nuclear Israel, Pakistan, or United States. And, if you'll recall, there's exactly ONE nation on Earth to ever have used nuclear weapons against another in anger.
So we're not exactly sitting on the moral high ground.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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The other thing I'm am thinking of
is the right for countys not to have to do what the United States tells them to...
I'm probably going to hear about the analogy, but
Ahmadinjad has become the Rosa Parks of the middle east, and will not sit in the back of the bus no matter what Hillary has to say...
Reform the UN into a fair body, not dominated by the security council, and make what it decides binding, even on the US and China, etc
Then maybe we would have a world where talk wasn't cheap... but until then we have posturing
So there we are
Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"
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Yeah, bad analogy, but you get a pass since I know what you are going for. That was within this country = different.
Guys, I know what you are saying but I also know you don't know what's in Ahmadinejad's heart and soul (pls, no Bush references) so you don't win me over. "If you're guessing then you don't know." And with Iran we'll be guessing for a long time. Tomorrow, if they put you in charge of US security (not you Gino) are you going to be so trusting?
It's WORLD politics. If you think local is crazed and full of paranoia this is even worse.
Gino - my favorite thing you said is other countries not feeling like they need to do what the US says. No one likes a bully - we've got a lot of repairing and bridge building to do. OBAMA'S NOT HELPING. Sorry for the caps - I'm starting to get pissed when I think of him. It's a slow process but no matter what I think of O. I feel like we're making the turn.
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Quote:A point worth making, Pizmo.
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
It's WORLD politics. If you think local is crazed and full of paranoia this is even worse.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Gotta agree with Gino, Piz. Iran NEEDS nuclear weapons, and soon. Otherwise, we might decide to invade. As we've already shown with Iraq and North Korea: If we THINK you're trying to get them, we'll invade; if we KNOW you already have them... we'll talk.
The only way Iran gets a seat at the big boys' table is if they have nuclear weapons. Those aren't THEIR rules; they're ours. At least that's the example we've set.
We can't even handle 2 military locations Mike, Iran has to see that. They're just posturing. That's almost ALL they do.
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Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Yeah, bad analogy, but you get a pass since I know what you are going for. That was within this country = different.
Guys, I know what you are saying but I also know you don't know what's in Ahmadinejad's heart and soul (pls, no Bush references) so you don't win me over. "If you're guessing then you don't know." And with Iran we'll be guessing for a long time. Tomorrow, if they put you in charge of US security (not you Gino) are you going to be so trusting?
It's WORLD politics. If you think local is crazed and full of paranoia this is even worse.
Gino - my favorite thing you said is other countries not feeling like they need to do what the US says. No one likes a bully - we've got a lot of repairing and bridge building to do. OBAMA'S NOT HELPING. Sorry for the caps - I'm starting to get pissed when I think of him. It's a slow process but no matter what I think of O. I feel like we're making the turn.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
I know you said not me, but I will answer that anyway pizmo, it is a good point you make.
I would let them have their nuclear power... and if they felt they needed to go to nuclear weapons, well ok
but that line about great power equals great responsibility...
You make the point ( not just with them, but everyone with nukes... ) perhaps a new treaty would be quite appropriate, that such weapons are for defensive purposes only, and that any country launching a first strike with them, or passing weapons or tech to third party automatically becomes the enemy of all the other signatorys...
ie Iran pre-emptively nukes Israel, US, Russia and China Nukes Iran
or US nukes Iran pre-emptively then Russia, China, and India nukes US
legal use requires a majority vote, or you are the next target...
some type of collective security arrangement that would make these weapons one of very last resort ie never to be used, including American ones.
Because Bush aside, why trust US leaders either ?
" That was within this country = different. "
why does it have to be ? if we reguarded folk as folk and treated everyone else as we would be treated, and not vilify some with RappyFacts when it suits us... would not many of our problems go away ?
sure it is bigger than individuals, but why do group rights fiqure lower than individual rights ?
as a species I think we need to have more respect for each other, and forget the race, religion, citizenship crap that divides us... that will be the next big evolution.
or maybe I'm too optimistic
Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"
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Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Gotta agree with Gino, Piz. Iran NEEDS nuclear weapons, and soon. Otherwise, we might decide to invade. As we've already shown with Iraq and North Korea: If we THINK you're trying to get them, we'll invade; if we KNOW you already have them... we'll talk.
The only way Iran gets a seat at the big boys' table is if they have nuclear weapons. Those aren't THEIR rules; they're ours. At least that's the example we've set.
We can't even handle 2 military locations Mike, Iran has to see that. They're just posturing. That's almost ALL they do.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
thats is today, remember the US backed the decade long Iraqi attack against them, they lost ( I think near a million ) people... can't expect them to have short memorys over that...
and now the rhetoric Hillary and Israel spout every day.....
maybe they think now is the time, as the US cannot support another major war. Wait until the US gets it shit back together and its too late
They have a window and they are using it
Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"
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Quote:
I'm not more scared of a nuclear Iran than I am of a nuclear Israel, Pakistan, or United States.
Well there's that prospect of a middle east nuclear arms race that might concern you a little bit.
Ultimately whether you think non-proliferation is hypocritical or not, this ultimately becomes a question of whether we *want* every country that desires its own nukes to have them, or not (or, like Gino, whether you think a country like Iran acquiring a nuke would improve the nuclear balance).
If no to both questions, then non-proliferation is an imperative - and one we can't afford to not enforce rigidly.
A debate on the apparent hypocrisy is ok I guess - it speaks to the question of whether all nations should reduce their nuclear arsenals in the future, or eliminate them completely (there'd be downsides to this, even if it could be achieved). But I question the value of apathy/hand-wringing on this issue...
Heads should roll
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