Cheney crawls out from under his rock...again...

I’ve always liked Dick Cheney, but now I just wish he’d go away and be a dignified former Vice President. I liked Jimmy Carter when he was President but his antics since really grate on my nerves. I wish they’d follow the example that Clinton and the Bushes have set and just go back to private lives.

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

i think he did some good as secretary of defense, but he was also involved in many things at the time which didn't come out until much later I think were very wrong, but then he was under orders... not a real justification, but not a complete condemnation either.

As VP, I really think his positions were biased to supporting his own agenda, and that agenda was not the best route for the US... and not only that he was a cult of personality which pushed out any opposing opinions, forcing his own policy's through, and those foreign policy decisions I do take issue with.

His legacy, as well as both Bushs are tarnished now... a quiet retirement for all might be best




Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kirkules:
I liked Jimmy Carter when he was President but his antics since really grate on my nerves.

---

Oh, you mean that whole peace and negotiation thing instead of USA! USA! USA! WAR! WAR! WAR! KILL! KILL! KILL! - right ?

I can see how that would annoy you, yeah.

Seriously, one of the things I *liked* about Carter was how he never stepped away, even when he wasn't president anymore he continued to travel the world trying to make it a better place, established the Carter Center, and tries to this very day to aid negotiation and conflict resolution without violence.

And while I might not always agree with his efforts or how they're carried out, it's a damned sight better than simply lobbing bombs and bullets at people, and then using their response in kind to do it some more, over and over again.

Ponder this - even if you COULD kill everyone who disagrees with you, the world would be a really lonely place, wouldn't it ?

-F

NOTIFY: N  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by traveler:
Yes. Thank you Bush for going into Iraq and killing thousands, both U.S. military, its supporters and innocent civilians so we could remove a dictatorship. If getting rid of a dictatorship was the main goal of attacking Iraq, then why was that not made clear to the people and not the rhetoric about weapons of mass destruction and terrorists.

---

i think you already know the answer to that- because that wasnt their primary goal! although the resolution to authorize force came under the Clinton administration, but obviously it goes back even further then that, since Saddam was our puppet for the longest time.

Quote:

---

Which brings up another point. What gives us the right to oversee the removing of dictatorships and creating democracies? Do we have some special mandate to start a war with any nation we feel does not meet our standards? Are our own standards so high that we can claim this right? If another nation feels it has higher standards of personal freedom have the right to invade and dictate their standards on us?

---

well we dont have the 'right', per se- its more the assigned duty on behalf of our masters. ya see it doesnt matter which partys in charge, the foreign policy never changes.. and wont change, until the NWO has achieved its objectives. example: Obama runs as an anti-war candidate, then takes office and expands the wars. if i thought they were sincere in their intentions, at best it could be described 'perpetual war for perpetual peace.' unfortunately, its probably closer to 'order out of chaos', a new world (order) to be precise

Quote:

---

And this guy still defends waterboarding. We have just witnessed a former soldier waterboard his four year old child. Does that not tell him the destruction such acts cause. This act of a father to his child shows the damage it does, not only to the victim of torture, but also the persecutor of this act. We, the United States, at the end of WWII, put Japanese on trail for war crimes and amongst them was waterboarding. So we go from condemning it in WWII to justifying against suspected terrorists.

---

well, we also havent declared a war through congress since WW2 either. thats whats so sinister about it.. we're basically performing police actions on a global scale. in their genius theyve somewhat created a loophole that allows them to take such extreme measures under whatever pretense they choose, and under the guise of 'national security'. take for example the patriot act: if we are constantly in a state of war, perpetual warfare, when would we expect to retire the legislation? since theyve now broadened the scope to include 'domestic terrorists', has it then become a permanant, standard function of law enforcement? its a terrible precedent, it just opens the door for the possibility that one day US citizens could be waterboarded as well

Quote:

---

And this takes me to another point. How many new terrorists filled the ranks of the extremist Al-Qaeda after learning of our torturing? We proved to them that we are the devils that they have claimed. Albeit the war on Iraq was also enlisting new members to their ranks.

Sorry for the rant. Cheney gets under my skin.

---

thats probably the most important point. as long as we are seen as occupiers, we will be treated as such. but notice, what is Obama doing differently? hes expanding the wars! if we can all agree that our very presence there, regardless of our intentions, creates this resentment and fuels this hatred, how do we expect this to change by further occupying there lands?

my gut tells me that a terrorist isnt motivated by his dislike of western culture or our freedoms. its more likely that our meddling in their affairs, propping up dictators, covertly overthrowing elected leaders, all the bombings and civilian casualties, permanant bases and the occupation of their lands. its our entire foreign policy that has made us unsafe, so as long as we continue invading and occupying these lands, we will recieve the

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by antimason:

thats probably the most important point. as long as we are seen as occupiers, we will be treated as such. but notice, what is Obama doing differently? hes expanding the wars! if we can all agree that our very presence there, regardless of our intentions, creates this resentment and fuels this hatred, how do we expect this to change by further occupying there lands?

---

That's why Obama is sucking. The punk.


The angry Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by antimason:

thats probably the most important point. as long as we are seen as occupiers, we will be treated as such. but notice, what is Obama doing differently? hes expanding the wars! if we can all agree that our very presence there, regardless of our intentions, creates this resentment and fuels this hatred, how do we expect this to change by further occupying there lands?

---

That's why Obama is sucking. The punk.


The angry Chrisisall

---

Obamas problem is the democrat party as much as inexperience

Notice his defense and intell advisors are the same as Bushs, and as foreign policy isn't a specialty of his... there he is cowed into taking advise he shouldn't

add his chief of staff whom I fiqure keeps him for hearing much otherwise...

we have the recipe for Bush Redux


Obama wanted to make domestic changes, but walking into the economic mess he did, and having the yokels and worse embedded in congress he does...

If he put Hillary and Rahm Emanuel on waivers or just axes them... hope may be restored. If not.....




Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by antimason:

thats probably the most important point. as long as we are seen as occupiers, we will be treated as such. but notice, what is Obama doing differently? hes expanding the wars! if we can all agree that our very presence there, regardless of our intentions, creates this resentment and fuels this hatred, how do we expect this to change by further occupying there lands?

---

That's why Obama is sucking. The punk.


The angry Chrisisall

---

Can somebody please show me where Obama's expanding the war in Iraq? Last time I checked, pulling troop levels down from 160,000 to 112,000 wasn't really an "expansion". Or am I missing something?

And if you don't mean he's expanding the war in Iraq, then please stop saying that he is. It makes it all to easy to dismiss every other thing you bring up, because you can be shown to CLEARLY be lying.

Just sayin'.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME