Epitaph Two: Return

POSTED BY: RocketJock
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 2, 2010 07:44
VIEWED: 10962
PAGE 3 of 3

PREV PAGE 1 2 3

ZEEK

Monday, February 1, 2010 7:27 PM

I didn't like the episode much at all. The time jump made it feel like some weird high school reunion or something. A bunch of people who you knew a long time ago, but they're all really different now and you don't really have time to get to know who they are now. So, we ended up watching them resolve issues we never knew they had. Uh...ok

I would much rather see Boyd's storyline played out over two episodes rather than all rushed in Hollow Men.

BYTEMITE

Monday, February 1, 2010 10:12 PM

Ahhh, maybe I'm just Lamey-mcCornington then, but the end of Topher's redemption arc was one of the few things I was genuinely interested in and that I LIKED about Dollhouse.

Some people have speculated that Topher might be Whedon's semi-author-insert though. Guess it's up to whether viewers whether he qualifies as "The Wesley" or not.

ASARIAN

Monday, February 1, 2010 10:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Ahhh, maybe I'm just Lamey-mcCornington then, but the end of Topher's redemption arc was one of the few things I was genuinely interested in and that I LIKED about Dollhouse.

Like i said, Topher played brilliantly this time! It's just, the lame idea of wiping someone, for ages, and then pulling a lame Deus ex Machina to restore it all magically, that just killed it for me, totally. That's like having a recordable DVD, that you recorded on and erased for years, and then have Whedon come along with a magic wave to undo it all and restore the original data! Mind you, without the backup discs! Remember the backup discs needed? No longer! This time Topher just pulled the data out of thin air!

I remember talking about that earlier: the tech in Dollhouse, when it becomes available to mankind, can really only end one way: in disaster. I even coined the phrase "Extinction Level Technology" for it. Joss should have left it where he ended Epitaph One, with the world in chaos. Instead he went for the 'happy ending', thus painfully yanking the rug from under his own show's credibility. Actually, he went off the deep end with it much earlier, when he started introducing remote wipes, and pulling the odd switcheroo on brain personalities getting mixed up (like in "Big!") and such. But the magic wand he waved this time was just an insult, really.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

BYTEMITE

Monday, February 1, 2010 10:52 PM

Quote:
It's just, the lame idea of wiping someone, for ages, and then pulling a lame Deus ex Machina to restore it all magically, that just killed it for me, totally.

Ehm... Was it though? One of the things that bothered me about how they revealed Alpha's composite event, and then claimed that ECHO was the only one that retained aspects of her personalities when she was wiped was that because as shown it was never quite true.

All through the series we see examples of dolls retaining something from engagement to engagement and even when they are dolls. Sierra and Victor still have feelings for each other even when they're PROGRAMMED to want someone else. Alpha still slashed people's faces. And Caroline's take-down-Rossum fight-for-the-little-guy magnetism existed no matter who she was, and shone through all of the personalities overlaid on top.

The original question this series meant to pose was you can erase the memories, but can you erase the soul? Being that's the premise I heard from Joss, I assume Joss believes in the idea of a soul (at least in this context), so what if the SOUL was the backup? It was already there in the body, just needed a jolt to start remembering again?

ZEEK

Monday, February 1, 2010 11:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Ahhh, maybe I'm just Lamey-mcCornington then, but the end of Topher's redemption arc was one of the few things I was genuinely interested in and that I LIKED about Dollhouse.

Eh I liked Topher the whole time. I never saw him as Mr. Evil Mustache guy. Though I think the way they killed him was stupid. Why exactly couldn't that device have a simple timer attached to it? You're telling me this mega genius couldn't add a timer?

They should have made it something like he'd have to infiltrate Rossum. Then it's simple enough to say they wouldn't be able to stop all of Rossum and couldn't trust that they wouldn't disarm the device. Therefore someone had to set it off manually.

BYTEMITE

Monday, February 1, 2010 11:18 PM

I didn't like Topher at first, but I caught on to what Joss was planning for him in the second episode, and I liked him ever since.

It's a good point, but maybe, considering Topher blamed himself so much, maybe that's the way he wanted to go, and didn't want to live through it?

CYBERSNARK

Monday, February 1, 2010 11:30 PM

Yeah, I figured the "reset button" was something Topher learned based on Echo's ability --the wipes weren't actually "wipes," they were just suppressing everything.

It's exactly like "deleting" something on your computer. Unless you deliberately overwrite every sector of the disk, then delete that, and repeat a few times, the data itself is still recoverable.

Remember, of course, that it took Topher --the Supergenius par excellence-- ten years to develop technology that could do it (and he had to come back to the Dollhouse for that one final lightbulb moment).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

BYTEMITE

Monday, February 1, 2010 11:36 PM

Yeah, much better stated. Thanks Cybersnark.

In the case of the dolls that repeatedly had new memories overlaid onto the "deleted" original data, perhaps when the memories are gone all the neural connections go back to a particular arrangement?

RAHLMACLAREN

Tuesday, February 2, 2010 7:44 AM

Well, when E2 started I thought my wish was granted, sort of. (I wanted the S2 premire to continue the E1 storyline)

There were only parts I really enjoyed, usually involving Mag, Zone, and Little Caroline.

Zone made a joke, but he was right, why have Safe Haven so close to the "Death Star"? (Zone is clearly the Jayne/Cordelia of the series)

Although, it does makes sense in a "Lord of the Rings" way.
Pippin: "The closer we are to danger, the farther we are from harm. It's the last thing he'll expect."

Still, through out the series, it seemed like Caroline knew of a place in the mountains (not foothills) where everything was all right (possible childhood home or vacation spot). [see: Grey Hour, Needs, The Attic] I wonder how far the nearest snowcapped peak is from LA?

I thought there should have been an extra twist, when Topher was about to set off the "bomb". I mean, Mal didn't have an easy time getting to the "back up unit" in Serenity (Movie).

With all the miscrossed wires of the series, I'm not sure how much another hour would've helped smoothe out the outcome.

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay