River. Answers!!!

POSTED BY: 25MyTurn25
UPDATED: Thursday, January 14, 2010 22:22
VIEWED: 29659
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JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, April 24, 2008 7:28 AM

Copper for a kiss would be a centuries old copy of "Penny for your thoughts" - no pennies in the verse.
Her volume fades as she become conscious, reads Jaynes mind, and finds he has betrayed them. From that point forward, she complains to Simon that she does not want to go back to the Institute, which is where he is leading her when he follows Jayne's directions. Until she tells him about it in Trash.

BORIS

Thursday, April 24, 2008 7:45 AM

I think River's insanity occurred because of what was done to her...before that I think she was just Mildly Autistic...which is not a bad thing as long as people don't try to mess with it...actually you are right she would not cope in our current time...the complex and at times nonsensical social expectations would turn her mind to mud. lets just leave her in a time where she's safe and looked after, and gets to fly a spaceship.

SHINYGOODGUY

Thursday, April 24, 2008 3:29 PM

The whole copper for a kiss thing is pretty interesting. I think that she was speaking to Jayne and sensing his betrayal. She was reading his emotions at the moment. I think it could be a reference to Jesus being sold out by Judas. You know 30 pieces of silver and then he identifies him to the Romans by kissing him on the cheek. She is sensing his betrayal, but in her state cannot make the connection.
As for the Christmas comment I believe another poster nailed it saying that it was probably in reference to Jayne's past.

Shiny! Let's be bad guys!

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, April 25, 2008 4:58 AM

Also keep in mind Ariel took place in mid-late December 2517. Hence "Christmas."

AVA1990

Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:39 AM

It's

"Copper for a kiss"

Just watched it

RGS

Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:13 PM

You have to admit Joss and Tim are wordsmiths in that the writing on Firefly/Serenity every word said has meaning to it .

Yes Mal was talking about what River gleaned from those members of Parliment about Miranda and how it disturbed her mind so of that information .

"A copper for a kiss" she said when she 1st woke up at the hospital mayve meant to tell Jayne she knows whats up . The "Don't look in the closet for presents " and "I don't want to go back to the instute .I'll be good " .... River knows whats happening but Simon poor Simon should have known what she was saying to him , after all she is his sister .

"Good ..Bad ... I'm the one with the gun !!" Ash Army of Darkness

ANOTHERSKY

Tuesday, January 12, 2010 7:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
Quote:
Originally posted by 25MyTurn25:
Also someone mentioned in ariel River says, "we're doing it backwards, going up the downslide." Or somehting like that. What is she talking about?

River - You belived her, made a face.

I think she was referring to the doctor who was making the mistake with his patient. "He's doing it backwards. Going up the downslide".
Giving a vaso-restrictor to a heart-surgery patient would have been doing exactly that.

Or the fact that you take "dead" people (DOAs)in coffins into a hospital, where they are "resurrected"-- ie going up the downslide, as in reversing the natural process. You don't slide up a slide--gravity, a natural law makes that impossible.

Also, at this time Mal and Zoe are literally going the "wrong" way (up instead of down), when they are stopped by the doctor: "the morgue is that way". Doing it wrong results in the possibility of being caught and is a nice little suspenseful pronouncement.
__

Going for a ride.

ANOTHERSKY

Tuesday, January 12, 2010 7:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by boris:
I think River's insanity occurred because of what was done to her...before that I think she was just Mildly Autistic...which is not a bad thing as long as people don't try to mess with it...actually you are right she would not cope in our current time...the complex and at times nonsensical social expectations would turn her mind to mud. lets just leave her in a time where she's safe and looked after, and gets to fly a spaceship.

Naw. Before the Academy, she was just a bloody genius. Profoundly gifted kids share some BEHAVIORAL overlap with autism--but the most notable and obvious exception, they understand (frequently to extreme nicety) social cues and interactions, which is ABSOLUTELY necessary to pull what she did on Badger in Shindig. That for me was the final proof against autism.

All her hallmarks (incredibly early reading--"correcting Simon's spelling at three", extreme physical coordination, love of everything she did, extreme curiosity and empathy--the main reason Dr. Mathias was so interested) are of very high IQ without the autistic diagnosis.

There is deleted dialogue for Simon in "Safe" about Academy kids coming back aphasic--in other words, the word-processing machinery in your brain goes screwy in various ways--so I think it's just extreme trauma(PTSD)and misfiring neurons combined with an incredibly creative and intelligent teenager.

Although yes, I do think Earth-that-was would drive her mad--given that 500+ years from now, it was hard to find a school 'at her level'. But, better than being experimented on, hmmm? I do wonder how she enjoys flying...probably immensely, given her (and Simon's, haha)response to the stars in Bushwacked.

__

Going for a ride.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:56 PM

Whoops, nevermind, this thread seems old and my comments have already been covered.

CAZARIL

Tuesday, January 12, 2010 10:05 PM

"Cooper for a kiss": I always took this to be a Whedon version of "Penny for a thought"... River wakes from the meds, is smiling, and almost teasingly says this.. Then her face changes. This gives the distinct impression that she did what most of us wish we could when we say it, she read him (and I'm sure if we could do the same, we wouldn't get the answer we wanted either).

And while Zeek commented (4 years ago), that he didn't think Whedon would reuse something, I have always seen a lot of concept/material being reused from Firefly in Serenity. (Even though I don't think this was one of them).

"Stupid SOB, dress me up like a gorram doll".. I always looked at this as a commentary on her brother's taste in clothes. Which I assume he bought for her after he broke her out.

"They took away Christmas"... For the longest time, I saw this as all the good memories they took from River via the lobotomy, leaving only bad ones (Coal) and/or those of other people. But I really like Bowie's interpretation better.

I want to say that it was mentioned somewhere here (can't find it now), that Jayne realized she was reading him.. But don't think that was the case. I think he felt guilty, and was definitely uncomfortable with what he had done... He was on edge from the point he returned from the vid/wave/call. Even something as simple as "Your toes are in the sand" (someone want to explain the meaning of that one), makes Jayne very upset.

"I know the secret that burned up River Tam's brain"... It's a misconception on Mal's part. If you notice, River normalized somewhat after the secret comes out (quietly sitting on the edge of the table when it's decided they are goin'na misbehave). So like a malignant cancer, I think Mal thought the secret is what made her crazy. Once out, she was head to recovery (and the fact that he might let her help fly the ship would support that... You going to let a crazy person at the wheel!?...)... An if it is not a misconception, then it is the way it was meant to be. That the secret made her crazy... Maybe all the drugs and surgery just either; A) opened her mind up enough to gain access to the secrets, B) effected her reaction to them, or C) Both.

"Post hole digger...". I always just took the smile on her face, as she was happy with herself because she had managed to put the object with it's use (the post she was tied to). And never gave it much though beyond that.

"Up the down slide".. Never gave it much thought, was just River jabber. Although any meaning discussed here works for me.

Caz

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