Getting Closer

POSTED BY: ecgordon
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 00:47
VIEWED: 8225
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NCBROWNCOAT

Saturday, January 9, 2010 11:39 PM

I haven't been watching lately. I guess I'll have to catch up...or hope the DVDs come out soon.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

ZEEK

Monday, January 11, 2010 3:56 PM

That was one crazy episode. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that Boyd could be the head of Rossum. That is really confusing to me. We'll have to see how this plays out.

Oh how I wish the show was this good from the start. Engagement of the week was never necessary for this show.

BYTEMITE

Monday, January 11, 2010 9:04 PM

Quote:
Some great twists and turns in this one. As for feeling sorry for Topher (a sentiment at least one or two folk have expressed): let's not forget that he's basically a sociopath.

No, actually, he's not. That was DeWitt's assessment, and she was mad at him. The hints in his character arc suggest very strongly that though he has a morbid unlikeable sense of humour, the whole time he thought he was helping people. First, by fixing whatever problems the people thought they had in their base personalities, then helping the clients of the Dollhouse with the imprints while the bodies waited for their new and improved selves. And all of this he whitewashed over with how shiny and fun the technology was. Topher's problem is both that he's too clever and not wise enough, and couldn't see the eventual ramifications of the technology he used/created.

Still reading, more to come, but this jumped out at me. Because I'd called the whole Topher Dr. Saunders thing from the pilot episode, and because after he made Sierra a friend, when he found out that Sierra's base personality had no problems, it was some scumbag just setting her up to be used, he wanted to help her. And look how that ended up for him. If he was a sociopath, then he was unusually disturbed by what Boyd had him do. A sociopath would only have not cared about getting caught.

BYTEMITE

Monday, January 11, 2010 9:13 PM

I also don't understand where all this "Boyd is the head of Rossum" stuff is coming from. There were two guys in that room. The first guy seemed like the Big Bad to me, and Boyd seemed like his Dragon.

I mean, doesn't the head of Rossum have anything better to do than chase after failed corporate terrorists that he would have no inclination to think would be able to resist the mind-wiping process?

GWEK

Monday, January 11, 2010 9:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
No, actually, he's not. That was DeWitt's assessment, and she was mad at him.

Actually, he IS a sociopath, or at least something very close to it. I'm not basing my assertion on DeWitt's assessment (although, annoyed or not, her statement was accurate and supports the depiction of character, especially in Season One.

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The hints in his character arc suggest very strongly that though he has a morbid unlikeable sense of humour, the whole time he thought he was helping people.

Other than a few throwaway comments in recent episodes (likely to soften the character and make him more sympathetic), there's nothing to indicate that Topher cares at all about others. He's an extremely intelligent narcicist with no moral center.

He and DeWitt--indeed, virtually anyone working for the Dollhouse, with the possible exception of Ballard--are bad people. End of story.

That's part of what makes the first season so weak. The characters who aren't dolls aren't well-developed.

In the second season, possibly at the behest of the network, possibly to push the "vs Rossum" angle, these bad people have been softened to make them more sympathetic, but that doesn't change who they really are.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

GWEK

Monday, January 11, 2010 9:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I also don't understand where all this "Boyd is the head of Rossum" stuff is coming from. There were two guys in that room. The first guy seemed like the Big Bad to me, and Boyd seemed like his Dragon.

Have you seen all the episodes of the show?

In previous episodes, they established that there are two partners behind Rossum Corporation. Partner #1 turned on Parter #2, making a version of Partner #2 that had all his intellect and knowledge but none of his ambition.

To "win", our heroes need to take down both Partners, but the implication is that Partner #1 is the real problem.

In "The Attic" the original version of Partner #1 is called Clyde (and is trapped in the Attic). The non-Boyd guy introduces himself as (I think) "Clyde the Fifth". Could be that they're pulling a switch-ero, but if we we take it straight-up as depicted, "Clyde the Fifth" would be the ambition-less version of Partner #2... which means that Boyd = Partner #1.

Remember, the whole point of going into Caroline's history is that she is the only person who has seen both partners. Presumably, the scene ending the episode is the moment at which she saw them both.

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I mean, doesn't the head of Rossum have anything better to do than chase after failed corporate terrorists that he would have no inclination to think would be able to resist the mind-wiping process?

You would think so, wouldn't you? But based on the brief scenes for next week, it appears that Boyd (presumably not his real name) is playing a much larger game, and that Caroline, DeWitt, and Saunders may all just be pieces on his board.

Does seem a bit odd that he would be playing the role of a security chief for quite some time, but, as with so many Whedon characters, there have always been parts of his background that don't add up.

Guess we'll see where the truth lies in the next two weeks.

BYTEMITE

Monday, January 11, 2010 9:44 PM

You're missing the concept of a character arc. Topher isn't a sociopath because that's boring. That would be a stagnant character, oh he's evil so just kill him. The foundations of the current revelations about his character were established in the first season, but most people disliked the character so intensely that they didn't look closer. Hell, *I* disliked him, but it didn't stop me from seeing. The Dr. Saunders scene at the beginning of season 2 was the a ha moment. You'll notice he didn't take advantage of her, and explained why he made her hate him. If Dr. Saunders had been right about why he programmed her the way he did, THEN he would have been a sociopath.

Also, did you forget the episode where he showed a brain scan of an actual sociopath, and compared it to his own?

He's really more like a grating "Dude not funny" Operative. Thinks he's doing good, thinks he's making a better world. He's not, and he's slowly come to realize that. No, he's not good, all of the people running the Dollhouse (even Ballard) are actually evil alignment, but all of them are getting better. Except Boyd, who's getting worse. More on that later.

BYTEMITE

Monday, January 11, 2010 9:48 PM

Yes, I've seen the episode the Attic, but I think everyone has got the wrong Big Bad. You were all so surprised by Boyd's appearance compared to the throwaway guy that you assumed he's the Big Bad.

Now grant you, he's very likely to be the behind-the-scenes guy, possibly the handler of Clyde the 5th. Which makes him at least the Dragon to the OTHER head of Rossum, who put Clyde the first into storage and made super-ambitious Clyde the second. But it DOESN'T necessarily make Boyd the Big Bad.

Does Boyd's skill set strike you as that of a gifted (and breathtakingly unethical) neuroscientist who would have been Clyde's peer? Or does his skill set strike you as a hired thug/assassin?

So totally the Dragon.

ZEEK

Monday, January 11, 2010 9:52 PM

Boyd always seemed like a good person. Even in season 1 he seemed much more caring than DeWitt or Dominic. Topher just doesn't think about the grey area of what he does. He sees people sign up for the program and takes that as their consent. If they were all really consenting then I could see that as a decent rationalization. However, it seems like that's not the case and Topher knows it. Then again if they deceived him with that notion early on and only revealed their true nature at a later time then he might be stuck. DeWitt mentioned the Dollhouse retirement plan is not very friendly.

BYTEMITE

Monday, January 11, 2010 9:57 PM

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Then again if they deceived him with that notion early on and only revealed their true nature at a later time then he might be stuck. DeWitt mentioned the Dollhouse retirement plan is not very friendly.

This is pretty much covered in the Sierra arc. See Topher's reaction.

He's not good, I've never said that. He's gotten himself involved in bad things and is using the justification that he's helping people to make himself feel better about how he enjoys his job and the technology just a LITTLE too much.

But he's not a sociopath. He's just yet another sad human being deluding himself into thinking he's doing good. Every single person running the House, including Ballard, falls under this description.

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