AVATAR, Anarchy, Narrative and Perception

Jkid - Actually, THAT part I think I understand, about not intervening before that, lemme explain...

My ex hates doin the dishes, this was kind of a point of contention off and on, I don't at all mind and will do them twenty times or more, IF, and only if... she does them once - but I gotta have the one, I ain't your mommy, show me the token effort, show me you care enough to try, even badly.

To Eiwa, the human incursion is nothing but a tiny little pinprick on her scale of things, and even the loss of a hometree, while devastating to the Na'Vi was likely little more than a bee sting to Eiwa, so it's a question of scale and perception, as well.

I'll give you that there were places the story was weak, that whole "epic confrontation" thing was pretty contrived in my opinion as well, and came across as padding and a narrative tool that seemed a bit ham-fisted, not to mention the Colonel and the Company man came across as terribly flat and one dimensional, stuff like that, but this is Cameron we're talkin about, who prolly spent a little too much time hanging out with the SFX crew and not enough on the story, I found the 3D aspect a little overused and jarring in places it really wasn't necessary (like the mission briefing) even if it was pretty fantastic in the actual jungle scenes.

But still, I'll take Camerons work over say, Michael Bay, or *shudder* Uwe Boll, ugh, at least he tried, yanno ?

It kinda does strike me a bit amusing in retrospect that Eiwa more or less offers Jake the same "bribe" that the company did - only without four more years in the cold box, a long and likely only partial rehabilitation, and dependance on the notoriously untrustworthy good will of a military/corporate enterprise - once it's made clear to him that the soul transfer is actually possible it's a no-brainer even for him which side HIS bread is buttered on, isn't it ?

While not perfect in storytelling and a little too dependant on SFX, I give credit where it's due in that Cameron actually tried to push beyond his own perceptions even if the story wobbles here and there because of it - I found it immensely entertaining and enjoyable.

Funny thing is, since I do not watch TV and initially had no interest in a hollywood product, I kept thinkin people we're talking about THIS impending piece of go-se.

The Other Avatar Movie

Which happens to be done by someone I consider little better than Uwe Boll, and so I was completely NOT interested, up till my favorite online-shooter frenemy (Michelle) smacked me in the head and made me aware it was a whole different movie and I better go see it cause she was *IN* it, especially since her little moment of glory was right outta my bag of M-gear tricks from Air Rivals, which it kinda was, heh heh.

So I didn't have any real idea what it was "about" coming in, and being shoved by Mitch and dragged by my ex to see yet-another-piece-of-hollywood-tripe, I didn't have real high expectations, but being that the last time my ex got excited enough to practically DRAG me to the theatre it was over Pan's Labyrinth, which is also an excellent flick, I gave it an a chance to impress me, and it certainly did.

I guess maybe going into it with fewer preconceptions gave me a different perspective, maybe, but I did find it well worth the price of admission, even if I know they're gonna sequelise it into the ground like they do everything else that makes a buck, alas.

-Frem

There always has to be a price.

NOTIFY: N  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Hey Niki and Mike,

I'm so confused. The point about "hero" vs. "protagonist" was a point I thought I was making! Might have used the inelegant phrase "main character" instead of the lovely word "protagonist" but it's the same point. I was attempting to account for why folk would think Lt. Dunbar in Dances with Wolves would be the "White Hero Who Saves the Day" and I supposed that people could be conflating two meanings of the word hero, one being an heroic (virtuous) person and the other being simply the protagonist (or "hero") of the narrative. Chaos and confusion, 1; HK, zero.

And Niki, I was not suggesting that I saw Kevin Costner's character as an heroic figure, I was presenting that idea as something OTHER FOLKS are putting forth without any, y'know, evidence in the movie to back it up. It strikes me as completely fabricated. And my reading of AVATAR is pretty much in complete accord with Frem that Eywa was really "the" major player in the story, but to my way of thinking Eywa is kind of an all encompassing Being--everyone who was working for the good of the planet would be a part of Eywa.

As an artist myself, whether people "read" all kinds of erroneous stuff into a story or not is kind of a big deal. I'm not talking about ambiguity. Plenty of great works of art incorporate a great deal of ambiguity. You see the movie Dead Man Walking? That was something of a masterpiece of ambiguity. Because it showed all the people involved in the story so empathetically, a lot of folks saw that film as a profound condemnations of capital punishment and yet other folks saw it as an equally forceful justification of capital punishment. Me, I saw it as resoundingly "anti" but I can see how folks saw it as "pro." The movie gave the "pro" crowd a very respectful hearing, I just disagree with 'em and admire Tim Robbins for being able to encompass such differing ways of thinking in one film.

Shakespeare, o' course, is anther artist who works magnificently with ambiguity. People have been writing about his works and what they "truly mean" for 400 years and still haven't exhausted the many meanings he offers us.

But, y'know, Cameron ain't no Shakespeare! He ain't a master of ambiguity. I think he's a fine storyteller, but his stories are much more simple. So when folks find such different meanings in his work I'm not thinking, "Wow, what fascinating ambiguity!" I'm thinking, "Where the heck did they get THAT idea?" And I come to the conclusion, "Oh, they supplied it themselves."

I think some movies deal with such politically incendiary subject matter that people read all manner of stuff into 'em. Back when Thelma and Louise came out there was all this noise in the culture about it being a "male bashing" film. That "all" the men in that movie were depicted as monsters, blah blah blah, etc. But in order for one to believe that, one would have had to totally ignore the performances of Harvey Keitel and (to a lest spectacular degree) Michael Madsen.

What I'm saying is: sure there's room for interpretation in art, but some interpretations require that you ignore large portions of the actual story to hold them. And I evaluate such interpretations as, simply, y'know, inaccurate.

Your comment, Niki, that you saw Dances with Wolves as a kind of reversal of the John Wayne stereotype takes me back to when the film came out, as there were a lot of folks back then who saw it thataway. But now, particularly in the context of AVATAR, it's being held up as a "typical" example of some "White Guy Saves the Day" genre and I think you have to ignore pretty much everything that actually happens in that movie other than "Kevin Costner is a big movie-star" to see the film in that way (not that such films don't exist, either! The Last Samurai is a splendid example!).

To my mind AVATAR is much closer to a District 9 than a Dances with Wolves. Some folk on the web have been comparing it to Dune and I can see merit in that as well. I just think the resemblance to Dances with Wolves is woefully

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
to my way of thinking Eywa is kind of an all encompassing Being--everyone who was working for the good of the planet would be a part of Eywa.

---

I kinda disagree a little bit over that, in respect to Michelles character, cause while some folk clearly had a "side" they had chosen to be on, her actions were based only upon her own conscience.

I identify very strongly with that, as does she, especially since following the demands of her conscience has so often led the lady into trouble, which given her notoriety gets plastered everywhere and causes all manner of emotional distress for her which she ain't all that good at coping with.
(At least gunning folk down in games is a better release valve than some.)

-F

NOTIFY: N  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Posted by HKC:


Hey Niki and Mike,

I'm so confused. The point about "hero" vs. "protagonist" was a point I thought I was making!

---

In that case, I misread and misinterpreted your take on it, and you have my sincerest apologies. Carry on! :)

NOTIFY: N  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

This just out today :

'...The Vatican's newspaper and its radio station have given a lukewarm reception to the film Avatar, criticizing it for its "spiritualism linked to the worship of nature."

A red-carpet preview of Canadian James Cameron's 3-D blockbuster was held in Rome ahead of its wide release Friday in Italy.

The film is set on the fictional planet of Pandora, where humans are creating an environmentally destructive mining colony.

Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano devoted three articles to Avatar in its Sunday editions but said Cameron's plot was "bland" and unoriginal.

"He tells the story without going deep into it, and ends up falling into sappiness," it said.

The newspaper had praise for the film's visual effects, but said the story failed to touch the heart.

Pope fights neopaganism

Vatican Radio said Avatar "cleverly winks at all those pseudo-doctrines that turn ecology into the religion of the millennium."

Pope Benedict XVI has spoken of the need to protect the environment, but warned against "neopaganism" and the danger of turning nature into a "new divinity."

In Avatar, "nature is no longer a creation to defend but a divinity to worship," the radio reviewer said.

Vatican spokesman Rev. Federico Lombardi said the reviews reflect the Pope's views on confusing nature and spirituality. However, they are independent film reviews with no input from the pontiff, he added.

The Vatican newspaper recently had praise for the long-running TV show, The Simpsons.But it was famously dismissive of the film version of The Da Vinci Code, a criticism that made very little difference to the film's box office.

Avatar has earned more than $1 billion US at the box office so far and looks set to become the highest-grossing film of all time, beating Cameron's previous record with Titanic.


Evo Morales, Bolivia’s first indigenous president, says he enjoyed Avatar’s message of saving the environment from exploitation.

The president, an Aymara Indian who was formerly head of the coca grower’s union, commented Tuesday to Bolivia's official news agency ABI.

"There is a lot of fiction in the movie, but at the same time it makes a perfect model for the struggle against capitalism and efforts to protect nature," Morales said.
"So much stupefying, enchanting technology, but few genuine emotions," the reviewer wrote.'

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/film/story/2010/01/12/avatar-vatican.html

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Gino, I think your information about the Pope's response is particularly interesting, especially this:

Quote:

---

The Vatican newspaper recently had praise for the long-running TV show, The Simpsons.But it was famously dismissive of the film version of The Da Vinci Code, a criticism that made very little difference to the film's box office.

---

I don't know why the Vatican would be talking about The Simpsons television show, isn't that old news? But in regards to the movie, I seem to recall that the USEPA was the antagonist.

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Oh, I just thought I'd throw this into the mix - what lunacy !

From Drudge

Chicago Alderman Declares War On 'AVATAR' .... Makes Marines Look Like 'Lunatics'...

Vatican says no masterpiece...

Audiences experience 'AVATAR' blues; depression and suicidal thoughts...

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

NOTIFY: N  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME