Are Americans a Broken People?
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 18, 2026 03:15
VIEWED: 19858
PAGE 12 of 29
Oh my goodness! So much 
…when it gets personal, nobody’s argument means crap to me, I just bypass. However,
Sig, as you said, Quote:
Note I said “MAJOR”, if you recall...major as in civil rights…from slavery to President, how long did that take? I don’t have to look anything up to kno, observation and history speak quite eloquently. Even more major, the transition in Afghanistan, which STILL hasn’t happened in 100+years, and won’t for a long time yet. How many third-world countries have made the MAJOR change to modern culture? That’s my argument.
It might be more fruitful to discuss why some changes are so readily accepted and implemented (how long did it take for people to shift from horse and buggy?) and others are not, rather than to say that ALL changes are resisted, because that is clearly not the case!
As to PETA, we again will have to agree to disagree…if you can concretely prove they “began” the movement, maybe there’s something to talk about. I don’t believe they did; it was begun long before PETA ever existed, here in America, back when the ASPCA was begun (the Western version in San Francisco, during the gold rush, and Britain before that). And it’s still not universally accepted. Vegeterianism was begun in the early sixties at lesat; how far has that gotten? There are examples on both sides, I was talking about “major”.
Citizen, no I’m not talking about decadence. I stand by my original opinion.
Geezer,Quote:
That’s not what I’ve experienced. I wasn’t here during the Dumbya administration, but I’ve read over and over about how the hard right dominated then and was pretty, uh, “enthusiastic” about their domination. There are certainly more others than right here now, but I see much discussion and differences of opinion, moreso than others have said existed then.
You commented in another thread about the lack of folks coming to RWED, and wondered why. It's easy. You have a little clique here with one view of how things should be, and anyone who disagrees with any iota of the party line gets, not actual discussion, but insult.
I came from a Firefly board which wasn’t just dominated by a clique of right-wingers, it was OWNED by them, and anyone disagreeing even slightly was attacked in ways you’ve never SEEN here, truly viciously, not just snarking and occasional lapses into personal ugliness.
It’s only natural for people to believe they know best, it’s human nature. But I see back and forths which change minds and modify opinions here, tho’ not often. Mostly I see differences of opinions stated eloquently, some of which devolve and some of which do not. I’ve read it wasn’t that way during Dumbya’s time.
If you only stick around to get people’s blood pressure up, you are not the kind of people you’re talking about who might come here and want to discuss differing opinions.
The rest of the thread, consisting mainly of 
by everyone to everyone else.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Citizen, no I’m not talking about decadence. I stand by my original opinion.
You could try a justification or argument for it
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Okay, just one example. Our "superiority" was so believed in by Dumbya and his cronies that they felt quite justified in telling the rest of the world how to behave and in invading Iraq to set up "democracy", which lessened our influence in the world and turned a lot of the world against us. That has weakened us.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Okay, just one example. Our "superiority" was so believed in by Dumbya and his cronies that they felt quite justified in telling the rest of the world how to behave and in invading Iraq to set up "democracy", which lessened our influence in the world and turned a lot of the world against us. That has weakened us.
But the American Empire hasn't collapsed, and the failure has led to a weakening of that belief of superiority.
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My superior posting ability has led to a collapse of single posts.
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http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2009/12/2009121613200705468.html
The end of American exceptionalism
By Mark LeVine
While most of the US sat transfixed by the ever-widening saga of Tiger Woods' infidelities, Barack Obama, the US president, gave what might well be remembered as one of the most significant speeches by a US leader in the post-World War Two era.
It is no coincidence that the one should happen in the midst of the other. They may seem utterly disconnected, but both reflect the end of an idea of American exceptionalism that for too long has excused and even enabled the violation of the very ideals it was meant to reflect.
Woods became the richest athlete in history by creating a persona defined by unprecedented talent coupled with steely invincibility and a sense of "fair play" supposedly peculiar to golf - and to the US as well.
Sponsors paid him hundreds of millions of dollars and Americans of all classes and colours flocked to his "brand" in order to identify with such a consummate winner, the epitome of the American dream and its sense of uniqueness and historic mission.
No one cared to explore the realities beneath the dream until it could be spoon fed to them in depoliticised, sensationalised tabloid format.
Brand Tiger
'Brand Tiger' became the epitome of the American dream [GALLO/GETTY]
Few fans, never mind the mainstream media, will look beyond the sex to scrutinise the engine that has powered brand Tiger. Serial infidelity can be safely condemned and ultimately forgiven.
It would be a lot harder to ignore the implications of the relationships with unsavoury corporations that have made Tiger fabulously wealthy when he inevitably returns to professional golf.
But who wants to be reminded of exploited third world labour or toxic oil spills while watching Tiger sink another miracle put?
Like the trans-fats or preservatives in fast foods, thinking about them will only detract from the consumer experience.
And so while Woods has admitted personal mistakes in order to preserve his brand, the underlying rationale and costs of the system that sustains it (and all those who feed off it, from television networks to tabloids) will not be challenged, or even mentioned.
And this is where the Tiger Woods saga intersects with the situation Obama now faces.
Brand America
Like Woods, America's brand is under threat. Unlike Woods, however, Obama cannot be blamed for the problems that so tarnished the country's image in the last decade.
Indeed, as Thorbjorn Jagland, the chairman of the Nobel committee, all but admitted, he was awarded the Peace Prize in good measure because of his attempts to re-brand the US as a less bellicose, more cooperative global leader.
Read through the "Obama Doctrine" outlined in his Nobel speech, however, and the similarities to the strategy behind the rehabilitation of 'Brand Tiger' are clear.
"We lose ourselves when we compromise the very ideals that we fight to defend," the president eloquently intoned.
The reality is that Obama is willing to admit to "mistakes" made by predecessors, but he will not question, or even mention, the larger system that has produced them.
He cannot do so because that would call into question the myth of American exceptionalism that for so long has been used to justify them.
As long as the US is a unique, divinely appointed and essentially just power, its mistakes, however costly, do not threaten the core values that have made it exceptional.
System of global dominance
Obama cannot acknowledge what the rest of the world well understands: that the wars he has inherited, and have now made his own, are the direct result of decades of policies aimed at supporting a system that enabled the global dominance of the US, but at the cost of large-scale violence, oppression and exploitation across the developing world.
Rather than challenge or even scrap the system that produced this violence and the periodic blowback it generates, the Obama doctrine will reinforce it.
Thus the bewildering c
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It's damn near impossible to exorcise the idea of "winning" from any male in any country anywhere. 2 guys living alone on an island sooner or later are going to try and beat each other at something, beach combing, whatever.
And if you have a notion that you are top dog, whether well founded or a total lie, you will do whatever it takes to hold onto it IN YOUR MIND. So don't hold your breath waiting for "Amerikee" to lose that version of themselves any time soon.
Hopefully - since it seems we don't have too many allies right now and most people would rather just piss on our grave than wish us luck - we'll do some serious personal reflecting, drop the self-pity, and have a new awakening. 
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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bump
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
It's damn near impossible to exorcise the idea of "winning" from any male in any country anywhere. 2 guys living alone on an island sooner or later are going to try and beat each other at something, beach combing, whatever.
And if you have a notion that you are top dog, whether well founded or a total lie, you will do whatever it takes to hold onto it IN YOUR MIND. So don't hold your breath waiting for "Amerikee" to lose that version of themselves any time soon.
Hopefully - since it seems we don't have too many allies right now and most people would rather just piss on our grave than wish us luck - we'll do some serious personal reflecting, drop the self-pity, and have a new awakening.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
Over in the Canada panics over overpopulation we are getting into a parallel topic, racial and genetic memory things like that if your interested.
Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists
Lets party like its 1939
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Citizen; it's long been on that road, and will continue on it until collapse is inevitable. All empires collapse over time, ours is no "exception", tho' we might think so.
Gino and Pizmo, thank you and right on!
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