Real World Event Discussions
Rumsfeld, Bush approved Iraq torture policy
POSTED BY: Ghoulman
UPDATED: Saturday, December 11, 2004 17:27
VIEWED: 18296
PAGE 9 of 10
Friday, June 25, 2004 3:10 PM
Exxxxcellllennnt.... 
Let the domination begin.....
Miiinnneee
Bwaahhhhhaaaaahhhhhhaaaaa
All Miiinneeeeee 
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
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Friday, June 25, 2004 3:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
But no matter which way you look at it, it's pretty hard to realistically equate:
Beheadings
Amputations
Being thrown into a pool of acid
Being thrown into a wood chipper feet first
ect
ect
ad naseum
with...
Having Panties put on your head.
Having a dog bark at you
Being limited to 4 hours sleep(?)
Notice:
The above comparison is in no way meant to lessen my contempt for the D*ickHeads mentioned earlier in this response.
You are attempting to use Western culture to make it seem as though these things aren't linked.
They are, I don't pretend to actually understand it, but, I don't have to. These things to the Iraqi people are *worse* than death.
Not trying to be a dick here, but, you might want to watch that in the future. Cultural relativism has gotten *many* a people in trouble and most forget about it when constructing an argument. Tends to happen when peoples worlds are "home" centric.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Friday, June 25, 2004 3:54 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
But no matter which way you look at it, it's pretty hard to realistically equate:
Beheadings
Amputations
Being thrown into a pool of acid
Being thrown into a wood chipper feet first
ect
ect
ad naseum
with...
Having Panties put on your head.
Having a dog bark at you
Being limited to 4 hours sleep(?)
Notice:
The above comparison is in no way meant to lessen my contempt for the D*ickHeads mentioned earlier in this response.
You are attempting to use Western culture to make it seem as though these things aren't linked.
They are, I don't pretend to actually understand it, but, I don't have to. These things to the Iraqi people are *worse* than death.
I think you missed something there, cultural relativism aside (there's some pretence that we all understand what kind of milkshakes the Iraqi's like to drink. *Every* single Iraqi has a different personal favourite when it comes to milkshakes ), but the above stmt should be revised as "We've been told that - these things are *worse* than death to an Iraqi".
These things might be pretty damn bad for the Iraqi people cultural humiliation wise, but if they are *worse* than death, then why didn't Saddam dress them up as a bunch of crazed bunnies and see-thru negligee and marched them up and down the street? It's the same argument as "Why didn't Saddam feed them all Meng-berry milkshakes". That's why.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Not trying to be a dick here, but, you might want to watch that in the future. Cultural relativism has gotten *many* a people in trouble and most forget about it when constructing an argument. Tends to happen when peoples worlds are "home" centric.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Friday, June 25, 2004 4:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
But no matter which way you look at it, it's pretty hard to realistically equate:
Beheadings
Amputations
Being thrown into a pool of acid
Being thrown into a wood chipper feet first
ect
ect
ad naseum
with...
Having Panties put on your head.
Having a dog bark at you
Being limited to 4 hours sleep(?)
Notice:
The above comparison is in no way meant to lessen my contempt for the D*ickHeads mentioned earlier in this response.
You are attempting to use Western culture to make it seem as though these things aren't linked.
They are, I don't pretend to actually understand it, but, I don't have to. These things to the Iraqi people are *worse* than death.
Not trying to be a dick here, but, you might want to watch that in the future. Cultural relativism has gotten *many* a people in trouble and most forget about it when constructing an argument. Tends to happen when peoples worlds are "home" centric.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
Sorry, that argument does'nt work with me. I've spent a significant amount of time in over a dozen different countries (none for some strange reason in Europe, but a few in Muslim countries).
I never perceived the differences between "Us" and "Them" (insert whatever nationalities you want in the Us and Them catagories) to be THAT different. No....Not to that degree.
No. My name is not synonomous with "Home" centric.
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
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Friday, June 25, 2004 8:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I think you missed something there, cultural relativism aside (there's some pretence that we all understand what kind of milkshakes the Iraqi's like to drink. *Every* single Iraqi has a different personal favourite when it comes to milkshakes ), but the above stmt should be revised as "We've been told that - these things are *worse* than death to an Iraqi".
These things might be pretty damn bad for the Iraqi people cultural humiliation wise, but if they are *worse* than death, then why didn't Saddam dress them up as a bunch of crazed bunnies and see-thru negligee and marched them up and down the street? It's the same argument as "Why didn't Saddam feed them all Meng-berry milkshakes". That's why.
You're going to have to let me in on your point. Say it, don't demonstate it with analogy assuming people will pick up on it.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Friday, June 25, 2004 8:13 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
Sorry, that argument does'nt work with me. I've spent a significant amount of time in over a dozen different countries (none for some strange reason in Europe, but a few in Muslim countries).
I never perceived the differences between "Us" and "Them" (insert whatever nationalities you want in the Us and Them catagories) to be THAT different. No....Not to that degree.
No. My name is not synonomous with "Home" centric.
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
I know that there are a couple of different types of people. There are one that pay attention to there surroundings and there are those that don't. I one for the former and it made it impossible for me to live the US. That was good from my education, but, not so good for the marriage. Thankfully she's back up here in days
But, to those that don't notice they'll never have any sense of the culture surrounding them. So, if you didn't notice a significant culture difference while over there, then you're in that second camp and your argument has no weight with me.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Friday, June 25, 2004 9:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
Sorry, that argument does'nt work with me. I've spent a significant amount of time in over a dozen different countries (none for some strange reason in Europe, but a few in Muslim countries).
I never perceived the differences between "Us" and "Them" (insert whatever nationalities you want in the Us and Them catagories) to be THAT different. No....Not to that degree.
No. My name is not synonomous with "Home" centric.
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
I know that there are a couple of different types of people. There are one that pay attention to there surroundings and there are those that don't. I one for the former and it made it impossible for me to live the US. That was good from my education, but, not so good for the marriage. Thankfully she's back up here in days
But, to those that don't notice they'll never have any sense of the culture surrounding them. So, if you didn't notice a significant culture difference while over there, then you're in that second camp and your argument has no weight with me.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
I DO notice my surroundings. Thats one reason among many that I find it easy to make friends in the countries I have had the pleasure of spending time in, and have been welcomed back by those same friends.
Your comments make it sound like you think that the people who don't come from your own country were born on Alpha Centauri or something.
Trust me, they don't.
Maybe we have a difference of opinion in what the word "significant" means. It sounds like your views on what makes someone different in a significant way is VERY narrow. You should try to have a more open mind. It will help greatly when meeting new people, and appreciating there cultures.
Oh well, to each their own....
I said several posts ago I was going to stop posting on the political threads.
I believe I'll actually do that now.
All parting shots will be ignored.
See ya all next time you make it to Alpha Centauri
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
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Saturday, June 26, 2004 4:27 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
Your comments make it sound like you think that the people who don't come from your own country were born on Alpha Centauri or something.
I'm sorry you read that into my reply as that wasn't there.
Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
Maybe we have a difference of opinion in what the word "significant" means. It sounds like your views on what makes someone different in a significant way is VERY narrow. You should try to have a more open mind. It will help greatly when meeting new people, and appreciating there cultures.
Actually, I'm *very* opened minded. Which is why I can actually accept things about other cultures without having to understand them (see previous post). I won't even comment further because the rest of this is baseless assumption about my person which you have no knowledge of what-so-ever.
Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
See ya all next time you make it to Alpha Centauri
Cheap shot.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Saturday, June 26, 2004 4:43 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Actually, I'm *very* opened minded. Which is why I can actually accept things about other cultures without having to understand them (see previous post). I won't even comment further because the rest of this is baseless assumption about my person which you have no knowledge of what-so-ever.
When you use the word "accept", do you mean that you recognize that it's that behaviour is there, or do you mean that you accept it as a valid form of behaviour within their culture.
What if it completely conflicts with your own set of moral standard with no grey area boundaries at all, would you still "accept" it? An example, and a valid one: In certain cultures, its recognized that the parents of young baby girls have a civil, cultural, and moral responsibility to drown them in order to make sure that your only single child is a boy.
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Saturday, June 26, 2004 5:00 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Actually, I'm *very* opened minded. Which is why I can actually accept things about other cultures without having to understand them (see previous post). I won't even comment further because the rest of this is baseless assumption about my person which you have no knowledge of what-so-ever.
When you use the word "accept", do you mean that you recognize that it's that behaviour is there, or do you mean that you accept it as a valid form of behaviour within their culture.
What if it completely conflicts with your own set of moral standard with no grey area boundaries at all, would you still "accept" it? An example, and a valid one: In certain cultures, its recognized that the parents of young baby girls have a civil, cultural, and moral responsibility to drown them in order to make sure that your only single child is a boy.
If some reliable source lets me know that it's a fact that certain things are true in another culture then I accept them as fact. Whether I think that it's right or wrong is a moot point, facts don't lie.
If the behaviour is valid or not in there culture cannot be defined by me, it's up to that culture. If they state that something happens and it's good or bad, I can't argue with that, it's there culture.
The validility (spelling?) of any issue is up to them. I just have to accept what they tell me.
As for that example. I've never heard of that being a *responsibility* in any culture, only that it happens. Whether it's an accepted norm or not my old brain won't let me remember.
I hope that clears things up. Let me know if it doesn't and I'll get back to you as soon as I'm up again.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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