Star Wars Prequels good, or bad?
POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 2, 2009 16:01
VIEWED: 5784
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I think the prequels are decent. They have some really good stuff, and some amazingly bad, but overall I find them pretty entertaining (with Phantom Menace barely crossing the "watchable" line).
Sure, they're not as good as the originals, but it's hard to capture lightning in a bottle twice. And, most of us are comparing the prequels to the originals through the lens of nostalgia. Much of what's bad in the prequels exists in the other films to varying degrees - especially in Jedi. But we were kids when we saw it, so those things worked for us then, and we grew up loving them so they seem fine now. Kids who grew up on the prequels will still love them in 20 years.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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ByteMite wrote:
Episode three was the better of the three new ones because it at least had some interesting, if heavy-handed commentary about government corruption, and if I can say one positive thing about the first three movies, it's that Palpatine's overtaking the Republic was masterful in it's execution. Unfortunately, it's the only believable part about the whole damn thing, and probably only because it wasn't laid out before you.
Yuppers, you nailed it. The politics involved was fantastic - if only you knew going into the damned thing that you were going to see a parable about the decline of the Greek and Roman Empires... Many nods made to the old ways and the epic stories, which in its own way IS fairly masterful. But it just wasn't very exciting to watch, and at the time it felt like a bad sendup of the Dubya Bush years, which I go to things like Star Wars movies to ESCAPE, not to embrace. :)
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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See, I thought RotS was the weakest of the three --not just the worst Star Wars movie, but the worst movie I've ever seen that didn't involve Pauly Shore.
I think it's mainly because, given the sorts of things I tend to be a fan of, I've given a fair amount of thought to the whole "turning Evil" thing. It's an inherently interesting storytelling device --what is it that separates the monsters from those who fight them? Where exactly is the line where a man's justifications become rationalizations, and how far should one go in pursuit of "the greater good?" We have so much of our worldviews wrapped up in the declaration that "Evil People" are not like "Us" --We are the Good Guys, could never be anything like Them, and so We can't possibly be expected to sympathize or understand Them; They are too different, too wrong.
What if that's not the case? What happens when we are forced to consider the uncomfortable possibility that we have the potential to be as monstrous as any villain? What happens if we have to understand the monster?
And Lucas. . . reduces this ethical and philosophical quandry to the time it takes to flip a light switch.
After more than ten years of struggle finding his place, establishing a new family, coming to accept his responsibilities. . . Anakin simply changes his mind.
It's not that he wouldn't be driven to save Padme, but there's a WIDE gulf between "I'll learn the ways of the Sith in order to save the woman I love" and "I'm willing to murder a room full of schoolchildren." The moment Sidious dangles that hint of saving Padme, it's as though Anakin swallows Dr. Jekkyl's potion and effectively becomes a completely different person. All the characterization he (should have) picked up over the trilogy just got thrown out the window.
If I hadn't been boxed into my seat, I would cheerfully have walked out of the theatre at that point.
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Originally posted by Cybersnark:
After more than ten years of struggle finding his place, establishing a new family, coming to accept his responsibilities. . . Anakin simply changes his mind.
Now, I'll agree that the shift happened a bit too quickly - but you seem to be missing the point to part of the story. That 10 year struggle to fit in, find his new place, etc.... wasn't working out.
The change wasn't in spite of these things - it was in great deal because of them.
He didn't "change" his mind. His motivation was the same throughout. He changed allegiances, yes, from the group that wasn't fully embracing him, despite 10 years of trying, to the guy who fully accepted him and supported him from the start.
Sure, going from "save Padme" to "kill the kiddies" is a big leap, and would be out of the blue without context (though Anakin's child-killing tendancies had been established as precedent in Episode II anyway). It's making that leap of embracing the dark side which is his choice - once he does that it DOES massively change him on a fundamental level - killing the man he was, yadda yadda - all stuff which had, thematically and plot wise, been part of the story since the original trilogy.
If you see that as simplistically as a light switch, you were missing a great deal of what happened both overtly, and sub textually.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
"I'll learn the ways of the Sith in order to save the woman I love" and "I'm willing to murder a room full of schoolchildren."
I remember one of my friends saying "awesome" when Anakin flashed his lightsaber, leaving to the imagination the barrage of fury blazing through the younglings. I'm thinking...Oh great now Whenever I see Darth VAder in the original trilogy I will also see a coward who kills many defenseless children.
Even Darth Vader I think wouldn't be that evil.
That scene could have been skipped.
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I see why the scene makes folks uncomfortable....
But seriously - how would that be something Vader would never do? Did you expect him to just pat them on the heads and send them along?
He wouldn't be "that" evil..... This is a guy who was totally okay with obliterating an entire planet.
Somehow, I'm thinking there were more than a few kids on Alderaan.
Vader going from evil to good in Jedi struck me more as a light switch change than his turn from good to evil.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Anakin did not kill "children" in AtoC. Anakin killed "animals" ("animals" that had already proven to be an ongoing threat to the safety and lives of Republic Citizens) under the influence of a rage of insanity --a vital rationalization, and one that he called himself on after the madness passed.
Condoning the destruction of Alderaan (which Vader himself didn't actually do, and which used a weapon that he wasn't in favour of anyway), was a military decision, aimed at demonstrating the consequences of open rebellion, and made during a time of active warfare in which Imperial personnel (and citizens) were being endangered by mass "terrorism."
Neither of these is on par with a conscious decision to kill a roomfull of children (many of whom were explicitly civilized, sapient beings, whom Anakin could well have known, and who couldn't possibly be rationalized away as sub-human monsters or clear-and-present threats) simply because Palpatine told him too.
Where was the after-the-fact angsting? Where was the hesitation? Where was the wondering what Padme would think if she knew? Where was the remorse? My argument is that Dark-Anakin had a totally different personality than Anakin had previously demonstrated. Turning to the Dark Side wasn't character development, it was treated as magic brainwashing.
Also. . . you're falling into the same trap I mentioned before, of assuming that The Monster is Always Totally Evil. Vader was a civilized being who imposed discipline and Order in the name of what he perceived as the greater good.
Vader never inflicted harm on anyone who didn't "deserve" it (either as an active enemy of the Empire/Emperor, or for demonstrated incompetence in wartime). Indeed, Vader is frequently demonstrated as being downright polite and considerate even to people he does not like (but who serve a valuable purpose to the Empire, like Moff Tarkin, Boba Fett, or even Lando Calrissian [until Lando's attachment to the known terrorists became evident --and even then, Vader tacitly offered Lando an "out." It was Lando who refused to take the opportunity and forced the situation to escalate]). He's certainly not friendly, but he's not a wild dog foaming at the mouth either.
The face heel turn in RotJ had been set up through two movies, largely by Luke confirming (ex cathedra) that there was still conflict (i.e., goodness) in Vader (despite both Obi-Wan and Yoda saying otherwise). Earlier in RotJ, Vader himself noted that Luke didn't understand the Power of the Dark Side --implying that Vader was being forced to serve the Emperor.
Vader was not a monster, but a man trapped by despair, who believed that there was no hope of defeating the Emperor or standing against the Darkness.
All that happened in RotJ was Vader/Anakin regaining his hope, and deciding that it was possible to defy the Darkness, even if it cost him his life. His own life had been totally ruined by that point anyway, but he was still able to preserve the good of others (his children, and all those who stood with them and would come after).
-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Anakin calling them "animals" after killing them was his rationalization. They had been established a good 25 years prior as sentient creatures. Sorry to tell ya.
Your rationalization at the destruction of Alderaan still ignores the fact that he stopod and watched an entire civilization wiped out and wasn't bothered in the slightest. A military man standing by a decision to bomb a village still feels conflicted.
And that room of children he killed was a room full of future enemies, so if you want to apply military logic to Alderaan, it could be applied here as well.
Asking for after the fact angsting is again missing the point - he had crossed the line already. You might not like the idea of the monster being the monster - but that has been the entire POINT of warnings about the Dark Side all along - it will change you if you indulge. It didn't come out of nowhere.
The "he only hurt people who deserved it" defense is nonsensical, since you base it on anyone who's an enemy of the Emperor. One - that includes pretty much anyone who won't do exactly as told, and two - the younglings fit that definition.
His turn in Jedi you could defend as set up over ONE movie (not two, as even Lucas has admitted he wasn't sure Vader was Anakin at the time he made 1, and so did not incorporate any such foreshadowing). His turn to the dark side, however, was foreshadowed in 2 whole movies.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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The prequels were awful. They really make me lose some appreciation for the original trilogy.
I wanted to see a clever motivation for Anakin to turn into Vader. That was a massive fail. It didn't feel realistic and Vader wasn't in any way a sympathetic character. He was a blithering idiot who most seemed like he wouldn't graduate high school.
The fall of the jedi was awful as well. Vader was supposed to hunt down and kill the jedi. Not some stupid clones.
Just pathetic. The only redeeming quality is darth maul's fight scene.
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But seriously - how would that be something Vader would never do? Did you expect him to just pat them on the heads and send them along?
Storymark: I dunno man, I mean...
Yeah, first panel, whut?
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