Rumsfeld, Bush approved Iraq torture policy

POSTED BY: Ghoulman
UPDATED: Saturday, December 11, 2004 17:27
VIEWED: 18296
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SIGMANUNKI

Wednesday, June 23, 2004 11:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JCobb:

As far as education is concerned, I can't complain. I have been through the public education system, and I think I have gotten a very good, well rounded education. That might be because I made a personal decision to challenge myself, but then again, so did my classmates.

I went through public school as well, but finished about a decade ago. Unfortunately, the people that are going through now aren't getting taught things that I did. The teachers are taking things out of the curriculum and not putting things in to fill the gap. The whole system is being "dumbed down". It's depressing to have friends that are teachers that tell me these things.

And this isn't just happening in Canada, it's happening all over the world

I think that it'll be time soon for me to do something about that.

Also, people don't really challenge themselves anymore. After all, they're them right? The kids today are far too arrogant. Goes along with that "me attitude" that I'm seeing more and more of as time goes on.

Quote:
Originally posted by JCobb:

Does that mean that your average Britian is brighter then your average American. I dunno, haven't seen evidence about it.

Well, when it comes to education, all it does is give the opportunity for people to achieve there *potential*.

For instance, my parents neighbors have a *very* bright young girl that could grow up to do some amazing things, but, will she? No, the parents get drunk regularly and of course the next morning they'll not be able to drive her to school. It is an unfortunate state of affairs.

So, IMHO, it doesn't really matter how much potential the kid has, if (s)he is treated like an idiot then they'll grow up to be one. The only exception is if the child has and untold amount of drive and goes to learn on his/her own. I did the latter as my school wasn't exactly challenging.

Quote:
Originally posted by JCobb:
As far as what some scientists think, I can make up my mind on my own, thank you very much. I also am not one to think that scientists can't be as liberal or conservative as you or me. I think a mistake many people make is raising scientists to a "God" like level, (again, not nessecarily you) and then assume that they can not succumb to the same problems that you or I can.

True, scientists can succumb to the same problems and us, they are after all human, and as such prone to error just like the rest of us.

But, these are some of the best and brightest among us today. So, one really should look at what they are saying and give it a good thought. After all, these people by profession are trained to think and be highly critical.

I guess this all gets chalked up to what we've both experienced. Which it seems clear that we've both experienced different things.

So, let's agree to disagree as I don't think that this discussion will lead to any good places from this point forward.

*extends hand to shake hands with JCobb*

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

JCOBB

Thursday, June 24, 2004 1:32 AM

*shakes hand warmly*

Like I said, I don't have anything against you, or probably anyone on this board.

Just so long as you don't vote somebody into office that will infringe on my rights, and I don't vote somebody into office that will infringe on yours, I think we could get along smashingly.

I don't care, I'm still free.

RUE

Thursday, June 24, 2004 1:36 AM

What I get from some postings is that Hussein is the proposed standard by which the US should be judged.

That's setting one's standards very, very low.

SIGMANUNKI

Thursday, June 24, 2004 1:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JCobb:
*shakes hand warmly*

Like I said, I don't have anything against you, or probably anyone on this board.

Just so long as you don't vote somebody into office that will infringe on my rights, and I don't vote somebody into office that will infringe on yours, I think we could get along smashingly.

I don't care, I'm still free.

Excellent and I as well

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

BARNSTORMER

Thursday, June 24, 2004 2:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
What I get from some postings is that Hussein is the proposed standard by which the US should be judged.

That's setting one's standards very, very low.

My intent when posting the article was NOT to suggest a yard stick to measure against. Indeed you are right in that calibrating a yard stick based on what someone of Saddams ilk has done IS setting an abysmally low standard.

I just came upon that article yesterday, and thought its point of view and content was interesting.

While I don't like at all the news coming out about Abu Garaib, it is not a commentary on the American public in general or its armed forces, but more like a commentary on the few D*ckHeads that actually did the deeds.

But no matter which way you look at it, it's pretty hard to realistically equate:

Beheadings
Amputations
Being thrown into a pool of acid
Being thrown into a wood chipper feet first
ect
ect
ad naseum

with...

Having Panties put on your head.
Having a dog bark at you
Being limited to 4 hours sleep(?)

Notice:
The above comparison is in no way meant to lessen my contempt for the D*ickHeads mentioned earlier in this response.

On a last note, I'm sure many of you will take issue with what I have written here. For that I am sorry, and I apologize in advance. I have always thought of myself (whether rightly or wrongly) as someone who is not on the Left and someone who is not on the Right, but somewheres round about in the middle.

In any case, I think this might be my last post in a political thread. I might just leave that to Ghoulman et al.

Politics and Religion are unwinnable arguments if there is more than one person taking part.

By Ya'll

BarnStormer

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'm telling the truth.

RUE

Friday, June 25, 2004 2:39 AM

Barnstormer,

Well, if one looks at the discussions as a contest, which can only be won, tied, or lost, then there IS no point to participating b/c they do go on and on - relentlessly.

But of one looks at them as entertainment, or education, or something that keeps one sharp just by reading, then maybe people win from them, even if no individual does.

I can see how the contention might turn you off, though.

I do hope you check out the many non-political threads. There is so much intelligence, thought, wit, amusement, camaraderie, information - a treasure trove of intelligence and talent and humanity - to be found there.

Sincerely,
Rue

JCOBB

Friday, June 25, 2004 2:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Barnstormer,

Well, if one looks at the discussions as a contest, which can only be won, tied, or lost, then there IS no point to participating b/c they do go on and on - relentlessly.

But of one looks at them as entertainment, or education, or something that keeps one sharp just by reading, then maybe people win from them, even if no individual does.

I can see how the contention might turn you off, though.

I do hope you check out the many non-political threads. There is so much intelligence, thought, wit, amusement, camaraderie, information - a treasure trove of intelligence and talent and humanity - to be found there.

Sincerely,
Rue

+1

You can never approach an internt discussion like this as a winnable debate, (much as I am loathed to admit it).

I don't care, I'm still free.

BARNSTORMER

Friday, June 25, 2004 2:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JCobb:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Barnstormer,

Well, if one looks at the discussions as a contest, which can only be won, tied, or lost, then there IS no point to participating b/c they do go on and on - relentlessly.

But of one looks at them as entertainment, or education, or something that keeps one sharp just by reading, then maybe people win from them, even if no individual does.

I can see how the contention might turn you off, though.

I do hope you check out the many non-political threads. There is so much intelligence, thought, wit, amusement, camaraderie, information - a treasure trove of intelligence and talent and humanity - to be found there.

Sincerely,
Rue

+1

You can never approach an internt discussion like this as a winnable debate, (much as I am loathed to admit it).

I don't care, I'm still free.

Yes, you are both quite right. And thank you for your responses.

I've been lurking on this site for a couple years now, and only just de-lurked a few days ago. The one thing that has kept me coming back here for that long HAS been the other discussions that go on in abundance.

There's no short supply of the funny, informative, and thought provoking on this sight as well as the comaraderie that comes from all of us loving the best SciFi show that ever was (to me all my other favorite SciFi comes in a close second).

The only thing that got me to post responses on the political type threads were the posts from certian users that I saw as just plain, unadulterated platforms for "american bashing".

I don't like being portrayed as a vicious, warmongering, subhuman form of cattle, bent on world domination, that can't form a self made opinion because I blindly follow the stink of my presidents butt.

It kind of gets my dander up ;)

Any way...that's my two cents worth.

See Ya on the other threads and have a great weekend.

BTW- Does anyone else have the suspicion that Ghoulman might actually be Succatash? He's been known in the past to rabble rouse using a Nom de Plume.

It's just a suspicion.......But in the near future, when the great State on New Hampshire, in the great country of the United States of America, takes over the world, we will be TELLING you what to think, NOT asking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(errr....Just as soon as someone tells me how to insert one of them there smiley face emoticons in my text.......anyone?)

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

JASONZZZ

Friday, June 25, 2004 2:58 PM

LOL

"If I wanted your opinion, I would have beaten it out of you"

BTW: the emoticons are all on the left panel while you are editing. You just type in something like : fork : (minus the spaces in between the colons that are bracketing the word)

BARNSTORMER

Friday, June 25, 2004 3:06 PM

Thanks,

OK....Lets give this emoticon stuff a try....

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

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