Define *Free Speech* if you can...
POSTED BY: pizmobeach
UPDATED: Friday, February 20, 2026 19:33
VIEWED: 5360
PAGE 6 of 7
Well said, Niki, but I have to disagree with you about the very last bit...
Quote:
Beyond those, I don't like to see free speech limited, however it may offend ME personally...tho' getting Fox off the air or making them tell the TRUTH...oh, well, one can dream...
As for me, I'm fairly impossible to offend, so anyone can pretty much say anything at all - as long as they're willing to let me do the same. ;)
As for Fox, I think they're a joke, but on the other hand, they're making their own noose, and I'm selling rope, and business is good! :) They're going to keep drinking their own Kool-Aid, they're going to go on thinking they can do no wrong, and then some intrepid soul is going to walk them right off a cliff, or into a wall on which they've painted a tunnel. If you think what happened to Dan Rather was interesting, just wait 'til you see what's in store for GlenBeck.
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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I disagree. There have always been nutwings on talk radio and TV, and I think their audience is so large they'll never die...or get better. It's a niche audience they bring to their advertisers; money talks; ergo there will probably always be a ClusterFox to be both amused and appalled by. (See thread on Faux News) Sadly...
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Nik, you misunderstand my meaning. I'm saying, LET THEM keep saying this kind of stuff. Let 'em go one making shit up, and let them keep getting away with it, and get more and more brazen about it - AND THEN SLAM THE DOOR ON THEIR HEADS. Let them overextend themselves, and then envelop them and wipe them out. It's a classic military maneuver - let the enemy penetrate the center of your lines a bit (don't make it look easy, or let them get too much ground, but enough to give them a false sense of impending victory), draw them in deeper, and then the ends pincher their force off from its support, envelop it and completely surround it, and cut it to ribbons.
Let FauxNews think they're winning, let them think they can do whatever they want - and when they really go over the edge, call 'em on it. Sue 'em for all their worth. Force a retraction, an apology, etc. Hey, it cost Dan Rather his job, and there isn't a single conservative or neo-con who'll ever again let you use CBS News as a credible source - and they've got their "documentation" to back them up. All we need is the same from FauxNews, which in their hubris they can't wait to cough up.
And, since all of "the liberal media" are on the same page and in bed together (Aren't they? That's what Faux keeps telling us!), it shouldn't be too hard to stage a coordinated attack once they overstep their lines too egregiously. Hell, I thought maybe Rushbaugh had hung himself with the whole "Obama Thesis" hoax that he was totally taken in by, but the rest of the media didn't seem to pick up on it.
Gee, maybe the rest of the media really AREN'T in cahoots with each other...
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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Meh heh heh.
You're startin to almost scare me, Mikey.
I mean that in a good way, of course.
-F
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Also from the book of dastardly deeds, subchapter: tactics.
One gig that works quite well is to play the part of activitist or 'evil overlord' to the very hilt, melodrama, large order of ham, side order of cheese...
As you slowly build a set piece engagement wholly in your favor, while ensuring they take you for a loon, and not at all seriously.
Until you are right up in their face, with enough force, political clout, or what have you to ensure your victory, and the poor unsuspecting bastards suddenly realize you were earnestly, *deadly* serious all along.
Bonus points for delivery of an over the top villainous monologue WHILE you drop the hammer on them.
Some folks around here ain't quite gotten it yet - you USE the crazy, don't let the crazy use you.
-F
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My take on this is a bit different than what is being expressed in this thread. We debated this a long time ago on this board and I got into some memorable (to me at least) debates with authoritarians (I wish they knew who they were, but they don't realize it) regarding the propaganda of organizations that advocated truly reprehensible conduct. Well, they (the authoritarians) were quite happy to throttle speech they didn't like, just not their own.
My point is that if you're not willing to defend the rights of speech of those whose ideas you absolutely despise, you got nothin'. Nothin' at all. You don't have to swallow your bile - you can call up all of hell to burn the bejeebers out of your opponents (rhetorically speaking, not literally), but you gotta let 'em have their say. And then you can use your superior arguments to demolish them in the public sphere (though don't expect them to understand your logic).
Mind you, I'm very well aware of the issues of access and money in influencing opinion. I just wish there were a much greater degree of understanding (and honesty) among the listeners on all sides of an issue. Wishful me......
perfessergee
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Nik, you misunderstand my meaning. I'm saying, LET THEM keep saying this kind of stuff. Let 'em go one making shit up, and let them keep getting away with it, and get more and more brazen about it - AND THEN SLAM THE DOOR ON THEIR HEADS. Let them overextend themselves, and then envelop them and wipe them out. It's a classic military maneuver - let the enemy penetrate the center of your lines a bit (don't make it look easy, or let them get too much ground, but enough to give them a false sense of impending victory), draw them in deeper, and then the ends pincher their force off from its support, envelop it and completely surround it, and cut it to ribbons.
Let FauxNews think they're winning, let them think they can do whatever they want - and when they really go over the edge, call 'em on it. Sue 'em for all their worth. Force a retraction, an apology, etc. Hey, it cost Dan Rather his job, and there isn't a single conservative or neo-con who'll ever again let you use CBS News as a credible source - and they've got their "documentation" to back them up. All we need is the same from FauxNews, which in their hubris they can't wait to cough up.
And, since all of "the liberal media" are on the same page and in bed together (Aren't they? That's what Faux keeps telling us!), it shouldn't be too hard to stage a coordinated attack once they overstep their lines too egregiously. Hell, I thought maybe Rushbaugh had hung himself with the whole "Obama Thesis" hoax that he was totally taken in by, but the rest of the media didn't seem to pick up on it.
Gee, maybe the rest of the media really AREN'T in cahoots with each other...
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
Oh, and in my previous reply, I failed to tell you that I completely concur with your post. Nicely stated! Thought I don't know how we'd ever get honest journalists to be as pitbull mean as the Beckbaugh crowd.
(Hmmmm, perhaps we need a new collective term for the purveyors of such horrific prevarication: "Dreckbogus"? "Rushdreck"? "Malkindreck"? one could get quite creative about this terminology.
Any takers?
perfessergee
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Quote:
Originally posted by perfessergee:
My point is that if you're not willing to defend the rights of speech of those whose ideas you absolutely despise, you got nothin'. Nothin' at all.
I make a point of it, and said exactly as much regarding that jackass Phelps, or whatever his name was...
But lemme take that a bit further up - not just the right of free speech, but ALL human rights, not just those of one color, creed, sex or belief, cause by doing that you are unwittingly emulating the very oppression that such actions often occur in response to, and it's why those who concentrate on a single right, or rights for a single segement, get short shrift from me.
Unless one stands for ALL human rights, for ALL humans, then they're just feeding the cycle.
-Frem
There always has to be a price.
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Quote:
Originally posted by perfessergee:
My take on this is a bit different than what is being expressed in this thread. We debated this a long time ago on this board and I got into some memorable (to me at least) debates with authoritarians (I wish they knew who they were, but they don't realize it) regarding the propaganda of organizations that advocated truly reprehensible conduct. Well, they (the authoritarians) were quite happy to throttle speech they didn't like, just not their own.
My point is that if you're not willing to defend the rights of speech of those whose ideas you absolutely despise, you got nothin'.
"My take on this is a bit different than what is being expressed in this thread."
I don't see anyone disagreeing with you in essence. ?? I certainly don't, maybe I've not stated myself clearly... I think if you libel/slander (making false claims that causes harm to another) you should take a hit.
I think if you harm kids with speech - you should pay.
I think Signym's "clarification" of Free Speech's meaning, in spirit, that you have the freedom to openly criticize the gov, is exactly what it's meant to preserve - HAVE to have that. After that, up to us collectively to judge.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Ask PirateNews what free speech is. He apparently thinks his free speech rights extend to being able to kill Obama supporters for exercising THEIR free speech rights. In other words, PN thinks that free speech is something only white men should be allowed.
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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