Browncoats and politics...
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Thursday, November 5, 2009 04:45
VIEWED: 6856
PAGE 2 of 6
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I have actually SEEN minds changed here. I've witnessed it, so I know for a fact that it can and does happen.
Mostly when they admit I'm right...maybe not in words, but in their hearts and minds they know I am correct and liberalism is wrong for America and the world.
I see a fair amount of good arguments on this board from both sides. I prefer a nice discussion of issues and an honost disagreement.
I also get attacked pretty regular for stating my opinion.
Here are two examples. Sarah Palin and Barrack Obama (aside from the stupid birther arguments). I challenge Obama and support Palin based upon their political positions and actions. Support for Obama on this board is highly emotional and Palin is most often attacked on personal grounds. Same with Rush Limbaugh or Glen Beck.
I find the left, both here and elsewhere, have very little substence to their arguments. Failing a substantive discussion of the issues, well aware that the arguments were lost decades ago, they fall back on the 'Republicans are stupid' argument in all its variations.
I don't think liberals are stupid. I think they fall into catagories. These include, but are not limited to: True believers like Joe Lieberman, John Kerry, and maybe Barrack Obama. Posers like Hillary Clinton and maybe Barrack Obama. Blue Collars, the rank and file union types who believe in labor ideals AND family issues (often with conservative leanings...aka Reagan Democrats). Radicals, like ACORN, "Meat is murder" types, anarchists, peace protesters, Cindy Sheehan, and maybe Barrack Obama (certainly some of his staff).
I've found you can have good discussions with the True Believers and Blue Collars. Posers and Radical will attack you personally, Posers to stifle political challenge, Radicals to stifle dissent and further their radical agenda.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
I find the left, both here and elsewhere, have very little substence to their arguments. Failing a substantive discussion of the issues, well aware that the arguments were lost decades ago, they fall back on the 'Republicans are stupid' argument in all its variations.
You start all reasonable-like, then go off the rails right there. Pity.
Pretending all arguments were laid to rest decades ago is ridiculous. Pretending that the only substantial arguments are on the right is equally fallacious. And attacks from the right are just as emotional and personality driven. You should at least try to remove your blinders.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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You should have seen the board before. It was more... interesting.
Firefly attracts people from all compass points of the political spectrum because of its many facets: The
Independents revolutionary theme appeals to southerners.
Anti-governmentalism appeals to Libertarians.
Gun-slinging machomen/ women appeals to nascent fascists.
Acknowledgement of social/ economic injustice and focus on "the little guy" appeals to liberals and radicals.
I have no idea why Hero and Auraptor watched the show! 
(Sorry guys, just had to dig you in the ribs a little.)
Like all great shows (and I mean great, not good) it is complex and full of contradictions, like life. Characters and events defy easy categorization, nothing that is purely "good" or "bad" about anything or anybody.
And that's why I like coming here. Most websites winnow down to a narrow viewpoint; this is one of the few places where I feel I can meet and talk to people who have vastly different backgrounds, "life lessons", responses, assumptions and beliefs.
Some of the more authoritarian-minded peeps (Limbaugh dittoheads for example) have left. Alas, some of the independent-minded conservatives like Finn have left, and some of the wild-eyed radicals like Ghoulman have left, and the board is poorer for it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I have no idea why Hero and Auraptor watched the show!
It was one of the most conservative shows on TV. Mal, the crew, Serenity, even the black all represent different aspects of conservative values.
In short they are folk trying to get by and do the right thing, even if that means being on the wrong side of history.
It follows my firm belief that right and wrong are not subjective. As a lawyer I am bound to follow the law. As a student of the law I am reminded that there once was a principal of law known as Equity that was as powerful as the black letter words we all hold so dear. Equity...making things right.
Thats what I try to do. I've taken a position that puts me in the place to seek justice, but also to protect it, which is why occaisonally, without trumpets and press releases I'll dismiss a case even when the law is on my side. That's why I almost always win...even when I lose.
This week I had a laby who hit a parked car and drove off. She was charged with improper backing (minor misdemeanor), but not the Hit Skip (Misdemeanor of the 1st Degree...6 months in jail). She got a break...then skipped out on court for two years. She shows up and demands an immediate trial. Screams at me, screams at the Magistrate, its my fault her kids are cold and hungry, etc. I dismissed her case...then had her charged with the Hit Skip and arrested, high cash bond (cause she don't come to court). Felt good to do what's right and I can still hear the screams (especially if I walk through the PD by the holding cells).
Then I had a fella got a driving under suspension for not paying a court fee ($15). He admitted he was guilty and was willing to plead. He paid his court fee, I dismissed the case, he keeps his license and his new job. Nice fella, shook my hand and was on his way.
I watched it cause Mal kissed his cross in the first episode then that look on his face when the world fell in on them after his big damn heroics a few minutes later. Watched cause Inara blessed the Shephard, Wash was a leaf on the wind, Kaylee made the ship go (and strawberries), and Jane didn't want anybody to find out what he did. River can kill us all (with her mind or her bare feet) and Book can save our souls (with scary hair). And everybody loves a warrior woman. Never cared for the Doctor...cept when he talks about River, I have a sister too...and once in a while I jab the bad guy with a sword when I don't have to because we can't always be nice and shiny. Good show.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
This week I had a laby who hit a parked car and drove off. She was charged with improper backing (minor misdemeanor), but not the Hit Skip (Misdemeanor of the 1st Degree...6 months in jail). She got a break...then skipped out on court for two years. She shows up and demands an immediate trial. Screams at me, screams at the Magistrate, its my fault her kids are cold and hungry, etc. I dismissed her case...then had her charged with the Hit Skip and arrested, high cash bond (cause she don't come to court). Felt good to do what's right and I can still hear the screams (especially if I walk through the PD by the holding cells).
...
Okay, so she was a bitch. But you sure that the right thing to do was to make the worst case scenario she was screaming about the scenario she's actually living? What happened to the kids?
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Sounds more like Hero was interested in "getting even" rather than "equity".
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Sounds more like Hero was interested in "getting even" rather than "equity".
She got a break, skipped court for two years, then was abusive to me and the court staff. She got what she deserved. Getting even is a bonus.
Turns out the kids are fine.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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I'm curious about the particulars. Generally speaking, a person has the right to defend themselves in court (and should), but yelling at people who are more than willing to hand your ass to you is not the most sound legal strategy...
My second question is, she crazy? Or maybe this was some kind of stress-related blow up?
Or maybe it's like when Frem got dragged to court a month ago despite not being in good health, which put him in a bad mood.
I'm not quite prepared to say what this woman should and shouldn't have been charged with, or what she deserves, but at least the kids are okay.
And I guess technically, she did hit and skip... Maybe? What's the letter of the law say? Is it you have to stay at the scene no matter how minor the damage to the car, or trade insurance, or... what? Seems to me like there should be some lower limit, or you could be fined or charged for accidentally dinging a car door in a parking lot.
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I had to jump in here, even though I'm not a regular poster on these boards - but I have posted over at Serenity Boards for many years.
Firefly/Serenity were made in interesting times, politically and the shows attracted people with a wide range of political views, who were surprised when they posted at the politics of each other. In the beginning, emotions ran high - people were very passionate about things like the Iraq war and Dubya - those passions seem to have died down in recent years, or people are tired of the same old discussions.
For what it's worth - Firefly is not a show which holds up conservative values - that's much too simplistic. People find different things to admire in the show - conservate values per se are not strong in the show - but here's how I saw the politics.
Libertarian - 'leave people alone to look after themselves - don't interfere' a sentiment Mal often makes, anti big government
Liberalism - support for the underdog and the lowly, those who need help should get it, 'liberal' values towards sex, particularly prostitution, anti corporation - ie'blue sun'
Feminism - women have power over their own lives and bodies, are capable and strong, can choose military careers, prostitution is an respectable profession
Atheism - Mal's views
Pro gun - look after yourself, no one else will protect you, if someone shoots you, you shoot them back
Anti authority - do what you can to survive, don't worry about laws, belief in 'natural' justice and moral codes
And the list goes on. There was something for everyone, but perhaps what united fans was that appeal to the rebel in all of us.
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Remember that "Hero" works for the same criminal cabal of the "justice" system which I constantly and consistently out for the criminal syndicate that it is - and being a willing and gleeful participant and servant of that system, one might certainly question his credibility given the deluge of half-truth and falsehoods that is typical of that system and it's members.
See Also: More Phony Terrorism thread for an excellent example of such bovine excrement shovelling, and just how quickly it falls apart on close inspection.
There's also good cause to suspect the motives of anyone who cheerfully crows about the results of a system so rigged in their favor that no actual effort on their part is required, which is known to regularly convict the innocent.
Ergo, I'd be taking anything he says with a pretty substantial serving of salt, were I you.
That said...
Politically, I don't have a conventional "side" other than folks learning that they don't need someone standing over them offering threats in order to live their lives - that being human is about embracing your humanity, instead of rejecting it in favor of a social and political dynamic that is ultimately self-destructive.
Mostly though, I want people to think, rather than obey - this makes me a natural adversary of anyone who wants the reverse.
"Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
-Philip Pullman.
And that's really what it boils down to, people.
I know what side I am on - but do you ?
-Frem
There must always be a price.
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