Dollhouse

Should Dollhouse Be Sent To The Attic?

POSTED BY: Haken
UPDATED: Monday, October 12, 2009 01:49
VIEWED: 14633
PAGE 3 of 5

GWEK

Tuesday, October 6, 2009 2:17 PM

Kham, I'm almost sorry to reply to your message because I don't want you to feel personally attacked. However, you're the one who best expressed the counterpoint, so you get the hit! Nothing personal!

Quote:
Originally posted by khambilo:
Wow I guess i am one of the few who wants to see Dollhouse succeed.

I want it to succeed, too. But I want it to succeed because it's a good show, not because FOX ignored the ratings.

Honestly, based on ratings from last season, as well as general lack of quality, the show shouldn't have been renewed for a second season. I read somewhere that it was quite possibly the lowest-rated network show ever to be renewed. That's not a great claim to fame.

Quote:
This article brought up some interesting comparisons between Joss's early work with Buffy, Angel, and Firefly. I think one reason that loyal Joss fans do not like Dollhouse is because it doesn't have the formulaic group-of-friends-save-the-day-from-the-big-bad concept that Buffy and Angel especially had and even Firefly had a little of.

I can't speak for others, but any "Joss forumla" has little to do with it. I don't give a good gorram about teamwork: Joss hasn't given me any characters I want to care about (as multiple other posters have noted).

If you want to talk formula, there's actually PLENTY of formula in DOLLHOUSE. In fact, part of my problem with DOLLHOUSE is that we've seen it done before, and better.

Consider the first season "triangle" of Ballard-Mellie-Caroline/Echo. We've got a hero with a "knight in shining armor" complex caught between trying to save an ethereal brunette who's been mentally screwed up by a super-corporation and the possibility of having an earthy, very supportive, somewhat zaftig brown-haired girl who is very sexual and a little awkward at times.

Yep, it's just Simon, River, and Kaylee again.

In Boyd and Ballard we see an older male who is protective of the "special" girl in his care (in the case of Boyd, with no romantic interest whatsoever). That's the Watcher-Slayer dynamic, or even Mal-River.

And Topher... Why not just call him Bizzarro-Xander?

The episode where the Dolls "escape" and have to piece together what's going on? Done better on both BUFFY and ANGEL.

I could go on, but my point is that there's a LOT of "typical Joss" in DOLLHOUSE. It just feels--to me, at least--like it's no Joss really doing it, so much as someone "trying to feel like Joss."

Quote:
interesting as a show to not have this concept. I'm glad the Joss is taking on more complex themes and issues than he's done in previous series.

The concepts of freedom, free will, and identity are themes he's played with in all of his shows.

The fact that they appear against a more unsavory backdrop here doesn't make them any more "complex."

Quote:
Again for Buffy comparison, and i posted this in an earlier thread, but people who watched epitaph one and liked it are complaining that the second season is not good because it hasn't picked up to those concepts.

Personally, I didn't love EPITATH ONE, but what it did well (and I think this is what people responded to) is that it gave us characters to CARE about. After one episode, I cared more about the characters introduced in EPITATH ONE than I do about Caroline or Adele or Boyd after an entire season.

Unlike the rest of DOLLHOUSE, EPITATH ONE gave us someone we can root for.

Quote:
But for those of you who watched Buffy, the second season of Buffy didn't get off to a great start either.

Without addressing what episodes are better than what other episodes, it comes down to simple experience. BTVS S2 was Joss Whedon's second season of television. DOLLHOUSE S2 is is fourteenth or fifteenth.

He's better than what he's giving us.

Quote:
It's frustrating to me that fans watching the show are that impatient as to not let the show hit it's stride before leaving the boat.

It's frustrating to me that DOLLHOUSE hasn't really hit it's stride yet in over a dozen episodes.

Quote:
It's

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KWICKO

Tuesday, October 6, 2009 4:17 PM

I think when it comes to matters concerning Dollhouse, I'm just going to abdicate and let Gwek do my talking for me from here on out, because he (or she - we don't judge) has tapped directly into my brain and might as well be reading my mind on this issue.

I gave Dollhouse SO MANY MORE CHANCES than I would have given any other sub-par show. TSCC was, quite honestly, a better show, and I bailed on it. Heroes is FAR superior to Dollhouse in every imaginable way, and I bailed on it midway through Season Two. Lost might well be the better show, but I didn't even get through the pilot of that one. A show grabs me, or it doesn't. It keeps me interested, or it doesn't.

Truth be told, I've given Dollhouse more chances than I think I've ever given ANY show, and only because Joss's name is attached to it. His other shows grabbed me because of the stories and characters, and had nothing to do with his name. And that is as it should be.

Khambilo seems to be saying that we should afford Dollhouse some special consideration just because of Joss. I'm pointing out that I already did that. More than once, more than twice.

Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

GWEK

Tuesday, October 6, 2009 4:58 PM

Thanks, Mike. For the record, it's he, not she (George).

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, October 6, 2009 8:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
TSCC was, quite honestly, a better show, and I bailed on it. Heroes is FAR superior to Dollhouse in every imaginable way, and I bailed on it midway through Season Two. Lost might well be the better show, but I didn't even get through the pilot of that one.

I concur. Precisely, in point of fact.
Currently, Alias is my thing. New stuff like CHUCK & Burn Notice are must-sees for me.
It boggles my mind that a Joss Whedon show leaves me so "meh."

The laughing Chrisisall

SHINY

Tuesday, October 6, 2009 8:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
At this point in FIREFLY, Joss Whedon was giving us Jubal Early and a new chapter in the dynamic between Mal and River. With DOLLHOUSE, we get glandularly-induced breastfeeding.

You win the thread.

ZEEK

Tuesday, October 6, 2009 10:27 PM

I have to say that this thread is a shining example that Joss fans aren't sheep. Lots of trolls come around saying we would love anything with Joss's name attached. That just isn't true. Heck there are people on this site who don't like Angel and Buffy. They aren't shunned. We all have valid opinions. IMO Joss still has a stellar record. Even if Dollhouse is the one let down.

Bring on Cabin in the Woods!

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, October 6, 2009 10:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I have to say that this thread is a shining example that Joss fans aren't sheep. Heck there are people on this site who don't like Angel and Buffy.

I shun peeps that don't like Buffy season seven...

*FEEL THE SHUN*
Angel? That's an aquired taste IMO.

The laughing Chrisisall

KWICKO

Tuesday, October 6, 2009 11:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
At this point in FIREFLY, Joss Whedon was giving us Jubal Early and a new chapter in the dynamic between Mal and River. With DOLLHOUSE, we get glandularly-induced breastfeeding.

You win the thread.

Abso-friggin-lutely.

And George? Good to know ya - it's always nice to put a face with a name. Or a name with a username. :)

KWICKO

Wednesday, October 7, 2009 12:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I have to say that this thread is a shining example that Joss fans aren't sheep. Heck there are people on this site who don't like Angel and Buffy.

I shun peeps that don't like Buffy season seven...
*FEEL THE SHUN*
Angel? That's an aquired taste IMO.

Hey, I *love* Buffy S7. One of the very best series finales ever.

Of course, I thought Angel's series finale was even better... But I can see it being an acquired taste. There was some really weird stuff in there, what with Pylea and all.

Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, October 7, 2009 12:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hey, I *love* Buffy S7. One of the very best series finales ever.

Equaled only IMO bt Star Trek TNG & Alias.

The laughing Chrisisall