UNDERWORLD VS. TWILIGHT
POSTED BY: jameron4eva
UPDATED: Sunday, October 4, 2009 22:18
VIEWED: 9687
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lllllllooooooollllllllllllllllllllll PR XD
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I'm a little confused by the second one. Aren't both scenarios bad?
Funny enough, I'm actually subverting that very trope in the first comic in a fic I'm writing, where BOTH the hero and the heroine try to pull that on each other.
I'm trying to expose that protective impulse as a mistake that very nearly ruins their relationship, and that the only way a relationship can work is if both partners share responsibility. Oh! And also the ridiculousness that results when one character tries to put the other on a pedestal. This is not mature healthy behaviour.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurVampiresAreDifferent
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Quote:
Originally posted by RiverDancer:Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Huh? Seemed to fit in with general vampires of the last 20 years or so just fine
Huh? I wasn't aware that vampires of the last 20 years or so failed to burst into flames when exposed to sunlight. Or that they decided to wile away the time in high school for their entire unnatural lives... or that staying in high school for fifty years would never arouse suspicion... or that they didn't tend to eat people. Clearly, the last twenty years have just flown right over my head. Clearly, too, the study of vampyre culture and all that other reading I like to do, not a small part of it about vampires, has all served to delude me into totally agreeing with PR on this topic.
Defensive much? Sorry, but Twilight is hardly the first time Vampires have been able to survive sunlight. Buffy and Angel used various MacGuffins to accomplish it, the series Kindred: The Embraced did it every episode. There are other examples. And it's FAR from the first time a story has used vampires who refrain from eating people.
Come on - for someone who claims to be studying "Vampyres", you seem to have some rather huge gaps in your knowledge - or you are purposefully ignoring them to drive that little tirade.
As for High School, I bet if I looked, I could find other examples. If they are forever stuck as teenagers physically - it is the most logical place to be in order to interact with society and not draw attention (as if they didn't go, child services would investigate). Plus, your complaint about them staying in school for 50 years with no one noticing is sillyssince the film stated directly that they only stayed a few years in any one place, and moved on.
Quote:
If you could please explain what's nonsensical about thinking that unhealthy relationships are not something that should be romanticized, or that women should be loving but able to stand on their own feet and reject abusive situations, or that vampires don't sparkle in the sunlight, or just that vapid characters are uninteresting... Yes, please explain how some of the very best principles of Joss Whedon's myriad creations are nonsensical. Please.
I didn't say those issues were nonsensical - I didn't address those at all - I merelly commented on the vampire aspects. If you have problems with the relationship stuff - fine, but I didn't comment on it, so please unbunch your panties. You think the characters are vapid? Me, too. But I wasn't taalking about that. Sparkleing? So? Anne Rice gave them super-reflective fingernails, so it's a semi-natural progression. None of which has anything to do with what I was talking about. Perhaps you could be less reactionary and actually read what I wrote.
Please, indeed.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Yeah, Brahm Stoker's Dracula AND Camilla as I recall were both able to survive sunlight. The spontaneous combustion thing was invented in nosferatu.
The sparkling thing is just too ridiculous for my tastes, though, I'm sorry. I've never really had much respect for Anne Rice's vampires anyway, so I don't consider "reflective fingernails" something that redeems the sparkiliness. It's pointless, there's no REASON for them to sparkle in sunlight. And it ruins whatever farcical attempt at mood the author is trying to establish.
These are vampires, aren't they? Seriously, what the hell? They're CORPSES. They're a monster/horror trope and if not an exploration of the dark beastial side of human nature, then speculation on the supernatural at work preying on the human population and the very human fear of death and dead things. Sparkles? Seriously?
Perhaps the main problem is that I don't like the DIRECTION that the pop-culture vampire and vampire story seems to be headed. So maybe it's not so much whether they conform to the last twenty years, maybe it's about how they SHOULDN'T.
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What you 'actually wrote' was dismissive of all points. Unless you missed what the actual point was about the not needing protection and being able to let go if it was necessary. I suppose I shouldn't have ruled out that you would miss that being a point about the 'relationship stuff' so I apologize for that. But the fact is, you did 'comment' on the 'relationship stuff' with the dismissive comment that Buffy was a superhero and that was the only reason she could be strong. So, instead of claiming I didn't read what you wrote, perhaps you should look again at what the discussion is actually addressing and actually about, at least as quite a few of us are approaching it. And before you make more derogatory comments about defensiveness or bunched panties, you should also consider that, maybe, I was responding to your very own snarky and dismissive tone.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I thought the Underworld movies were mediocre bordering on very bad. Twilight was just mediocre.
That, and Twilight had one scene I had not seen before (the Vampire baseball game) which I found entertaining. Underworld doesn't have anything not cribbed from other films of the Vampire/Werewolf roleplaying games.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
WHAT THF FRACK!!!!!!!!! MEDIOCRE, NOW THAT'S JUST CROSSING THE LINE. AND PUTTING TWILIGHT, TWILIGHT ABOVE UNDERWORLD, PRAY LUCIAN, SONJA,MICHAEL, SELENE, VIKTOR, RAZE, AND EVEN KRAVEN DON'T KICK YOUR MORTAL BUTT!!!!!!!
"The war was over... but a new terror had just begun"
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Quote:
Originally posted by RiverDancer:
What you 'actually wrote' was dismissive of all points.
No, it wasn't. I said "some" of the objections were nonsensical, and I gave examples.
I don't know about you, but last I checked, the word "some" did not mean "all". Quite the opposite, you know?
And yes, I mentioned Buffy, but not because I take issue with your problems with the relationships in Twilight. I was simply pointing out that a comparison to Buffy is not necessarily apt, just because of the subject matter. I'm all for girl power, but not every character, male or female, is or needs to be a strong character. Just like in life, some people are weaker than others, be it physically, emotionally, intellectually or otherwise. And such characters can still be used to tell compelling stories - particularly if that weak character learns to be stronger. And, when it comes down to it, while maybe you and others hate the idea, there are people who still enjoy the damsel-in-distress story structure.
And sure, Willow tranqued Oz.... but she also had to be rescued on more than one occasion.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by jameron4eva:Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I thought the Underworld movies were mediocre bordering on very bad. Twilight was just mediocre.
That, and Twilight had one scene I had not seen before (the Vampire baseball game) which I found entertaining. Underworld doesn't have anything not cribbed from other films of the Vampire/Werewolf roleplaying games.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
WHAT THF FRACK!!!!!!!!! MEDIOCRE, NOW THAT'S JUST CROSSING THE LINE. AND PUTTING TWILIGHT, TWILIGHT ABOVE UNDERWORLD, PRAY LUCIAN, SONJA,MICHAEL, SELENE, VIKTOR, RAZE, AND EVEN KRAVEN DON'T KICK YOUR MORTAL BUTT!!!!!!!
"The war was over... but a new terror had just begun"
Uh... yeah.... I'll get right on that praying.
Sorry to have upset you, but I did think Underworld was terribly mediocre and derivative. And I thought the second one was just absolutely terrible. Never bothered with the third.
Like I said, I didn't particularly like Twilight, I just give it points for being incrementally less derivative than Underworld.
And, as a side note.... shouldn't the thread title be Underworld v Twilight? Underworld x Twilight sounds like multiplication. And I shudder to think of what we'd get when multiplying Underworld by Twilight.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by jameron4eva:Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I thought the Underworld movies were mediocre bordering on very bad. Twilight was just mediocre.
That, and Twilight had one scene I had not seen before (the Vampire baseball game) which I found entertaining. Underworld doesn't have anything not cribbed from other films of the Vampire/Werewolf roleplaying games.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
WHAT THF FRACK!!!!!!!!! MEDIOCRE, NOW THAT'S JUST CROSSING THE LINE. AND PUTTING TWILIGHT, TWILIGHT ABOVE UNDERWORLD, PRAY LUCIAN, SONJA,MICHAEL, SELENE, VIKTOR, RAZE, AND EVEN KRAVEN DON'T KICK YOUR MORTAL BUTT!!!!!!!
"The war was over... but a new terror had just begun"
Uh... yeah.... I'll get right on that praying.
Sorry to have upset you, but I did think Underworld was terribly mediocre and derivative. And I thought the second one was just absolutely terrible. Never bothered with the third.
Like I said, I didn't particularly like Twilight, I just give it points for being incrementally less derivative than Underworld.
And, as a side note.... shouldn't the thread title be Underworld v Twilight? Underworld x Twilight sounds like multiplication. And I shudder to think of what we'd get when multiplying Underworld by Twilight.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
It can be either way, and so you know, that's your opininon, about UNDERWORLD, i just don't subscribe to it.
AND TWILIGHT WILL NEVER BE NUMERO UNO!!!!!!!
"Take my love, take my land, take me where i can not stand."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'm a little confused by the second one. Aren't both scenarios bad?
Haha, yes, I'd say they are, but I thought the strips were mostly apt. I didn't remember the second one was there until I went hunting for that first one, but I thought that at least the first two panels had some wisdom.
I'll be interested in reading that fic, let us know when you're done with it
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