Pro-life?
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 15:18
VIEWED: 3226
PAGE 2 of 5
I believe abortion is wrong. But that's not the issue. The issue is whether I have the right to force that belief on someone else.
I don't believe I do.
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"I believe abortion is wrong. But that's not the issue. The issue is whether I have the right to force that belief on someone else.
I don't believe I do."
Exactly.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
They want government completely out health care - except in this instance. They want to keep government completely out of your private life - except in this instance. They want to keep your privacy and your medical records completely private - except in this instance. They want to keep the government completely out of your "freedom" - except in this instance. And in this instance, they want COMPLETE government control of your life, because you obviously can't be trusted to know what's best for you.
Love this rant. Could be used without alteration for the anti-Marriage Equality movement with the only change in the ending "And in this instance, they want COMPLETE government control who you choose to love for the rest of your life, because you obviously can't be trusted to know what's best for you."
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Quote:
To decide a fetus is a "human being" at conception is equally black-and-white thinking. If so, then every time a woman menstruates or a man jacks off, they're destroying "potential" humans...
Ruh-roh - I think I'm in a heap-o-trouble; I'm a one-man Holocaust!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
They want government completely out health care - except in this instance. They want to keep government completely out of your private life - except in this instance. They want to keep your privacy and your medical records completely private - except in this instance. They want to keep the government completely out of your "freedom" - except in this instance. And in this instance, they want COMPLETE government control of your life, because you obviously can't be trusted to know what's best for you.
Love this rant. Could be used without alteration for the anti-Marriage Equality movement with the only change in the ending "And in this instance, they want COMPLETE government control who you choose to love for the rest of your life, because you obviously can't be trusted to know what's best for you."
Thany ya kindly; I take that as a high compliment, and completely agree.
Oh, and there's a study and a poll now that back up that assertion, at least as far as same-sex marriage is concerned.
In Massachusetts, the divorce rate has fallen dramatically since they started allowing same-sex marriage. It's now the lowest divorce rate in the nation, and is as low as it's been since before WWII. (I want to say the divorce rate is down around 1.2% now, but I'll have to see if I can dig up that study to check those figures)
So much for the "It will destroy *normal* marriage!" argument...
And a new poll of Iowans asked them what personal impact that very conservative state's legalization of same-sex marriage has had on them (the residents polled). The answer? A resounding 92% of respondents said it has had no impact on them at all.
So it seems that where it's been tried, it's not been a catastrophe, but quite the opposite.
As far as I'm concerned, if you want to marry another consenting adult, have at it, and best of luck to you both. I figure in this crazy shit-hole of a world, if you can find someone to love who loves you back, it's a freaking miracle that should be grabbed for all it's worth and held onto for dear life.
Mike
Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black
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*has a sudden urge to sing stuff from Monty Python*
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"If a sperm is wasted
God gets quite irate!"
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You and me both, Frem, must refrain.
Pro-life versus pro-choice... It's a toughie, and on any given day I could argue either side of the debate.
It's better to just side-stop the whole mud trap and try to discourage unwanted pregnancy from ever happening in the first place.
But there's some cases where absolutely an alternative has to be offered, like rape or if the pregnancy threatens the mother's health.
And of course, there will probably always be instances of accidental pregnancy. If a person has the means to support child care, you'd hope they would keep the kid, if they don't, you'd hope the adoption system worked and wasn't just a psychological disorder and trauma breeding ground. Aren't too many people who honestly wish they'd never been born, never had a chance at life.
Unfortunately, the adoption system ISN'T perfect.
Is a mother killing her newborn (or much earlier than that, a fetus) the same as an adult murderer killing someone, or the system choosing to kill an adult murderer? Perhaps the outcome of the situations are the same (death) but I think it can definitely be argued that the nuances are different.
I don't think one person or a society really has the right to decide who lives and dies. At the same time, a person has the right to the sovereignty of their organs. I think Agent Rouka put this argument very well once. If there is, say, a car accident that you are responsible for, should you be required to volunteer your organs, your body for the victim? Most people would do so because of that same responsibility. But to REQUIRE it? To force someone to donate their body or organs for someone else? That gets a little too ghoulish too contemplate.
Here's another example, one perhaps that conservatives might identify with. Say, for some reason, you're responsible for some guy losing his job. He has to go on some sort of welfare in order to survive, say he'll starve to death otherwise. That's YOUR money the guy is using. Should you be required to pay that money to help this guy? Say also he has to live in your house too. Should that be required?
It's uncomfortable to talk about, because someone who doesn't offer to share with this less fortunate person who can't care for themselves, who won't survive without the help, that is kind of a douchebag thing to do. But is that murder? Is it still the right of the responsible party to DECIDE whether to do a decent thing for someone else?
We can only hope that people will make morally correct decisions. In the meantime, the best we can do is to encourage people to avoid being in these tough situations, teach them ways HOW to avoid it, and offer some kind of support if they end up there anyway.
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Quote:The answer's obvious isn't it? Would you hire a woman who had an abortion over a man who killed someone while he was robbing a bank? Would it disturb you if the bank robbery murderer had never been caught and brought to justice? And what about the woman who had an abortion? Should we lock her up? Can any sane person see these options as remotely equal? "Nuance?" Really?
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Is a mother killing her newborn (or much earlier than that, a fetus) the same as an adult murderer killing someone, or the system choosing to kill an adult murderer? Perhaps the outcome of the situations are the same (death) but I think it can definitely be argued that the nuances are different.
How 'bout this: would you hire a woman who had an abortion over a woman who deliberately drowned her baby in the kitchen sink?
Anyone can see that the bank robber and the mother who drowned her baby have serious gorram issues--issues that would likely negatively impact their participation in society. Just a bit. But the woman who had an abortion? What kind of threat is a woman who "may have a tendency to abort a fetus?" Having an abortion and ending a fully developed human being's life through deliberate malicious action ARE COMPLETELY UNRELATED phenomena. Oy!
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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