Independents using dinosaurs

POSTED BY: DarkSky
UPDATED: Saturday, June 26, 2004 07:56
VIEWED: 9124
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DARKSKY

Sunday, June 20, 2004 9:39 AM

Most things River says seem to have some deeper meaning, sometimes almost prophetic, and usually not what you would think it is. I was wondering whether that was a result of the Alliance experiments, or whether it might also apply to what she says in the flash-back at the beginning of 'Safe', with her and Simon as kids. She tells Simon that they got cut-off by Independents and can never return to their platoon. Sort of what happens later... Then she goes on to tell him that the Independents used dinosaurs. I wonder what that could mean. Maybe she refers to the rather low-tech planets many Independents seem to come from? Or old-fashioned values? Mal as a dinosaur in the high-tech Alliance world? Serenity a dinosaur? (I think in 'Serenity' it was mentioned that Firefly-class ships are not built anymore.)
And then there is the part about having to resort to cannibalism. Now this one is tricky. Does it refer to Reavers? In the Reaver thread someone suggested that Reavers are Alliance experiments like River. Or does she mean being criminals,'low-life vultures picking the flesh off the dead'?
Or maybe I'm just over-interpreting this scene...
Any thoughts anyone?

PURPLEBELLY

Sunday, June 20, 2004 10:13 AM

I think it's possible that she was using her imagination, like children do.

THEFERRYMAN

Sunday, June 20, 2004 10:25 AM

I think you are over-interuptting the scene, but you got some cool thoughts, so I'll bite.

Cut-off by independents: I think you got that nailed.

Dinosuars: Maybe that is a reference to Wash and "This Land." Or barring that, what are dinosaurs? Something big, scary, and exilirating. Could describe Serienty, their space travel, or just Jayne. For some reason, I wanna lean towards the Wash thing.

Cannibilsim: While Reavers fit in nice, I would go along with Simon saciriificing himself for River. Which he has done many times now (and will likely to in the future also).

"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
-River

DARKSKY

Sunday, June 20, 2004 12:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheFerryMan:

Dinosuars: Maybe that is a reference to Wash and "This Land." Or barring that, what are dinosaurs? Something big, scary, and exilirating. Could describe Serienty, their space travel, or just Jayne. For some reason, I wanna lean towards the Wash thing.

I had thought it might be Wash's dinosaurs, as well. But then I can't really see the connection. River is hardly ever on the bridge (actually, is she ever?) and she doesn't really have much interaction with Wash. Also, Wash is not really an Independent, at least he wasn't in the war.

RIVERGIRL

Sunday, June 20, 2004 12:55 PM

Wash is not really an Independent, at least he wasn't in the war.

actually either was Jayne ?--at least he says so in Serenity.

THEFERRYMAN

Sunday, June 20, 2004 1:12 PM

But the two in charge were, and they kinda set the tone of the ship and crew. We're called browncoats right?

And I was saying not that meant Wash's dinosaurs, but a similiar symbol.

Who knows? Maybe Zoe gave him the dinos.

"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
-River

AURAPTOR

Sunday, June 20, 2004 3:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheFerryMan:

And I was saying not that meant Wash's dinosaurs, but a similiar symbol.

What most folks don't realize is that dinosaurs were actually quite successful as a group. The notion that they were too old and out dated for the 'new' world is ridiculous. They ruled the land as the most prominent vertibrates for over 150 Million yrs. No other large land animal has even come close to lasting as long as dinosaurs did. Man, in contrast, has only been around for a tiny fraction of that time, a few million yrs-tops. So, in the test of longevity and adaptability, dinos are in a class of their own.
I bet River knew that, of course, even if Simon or her dad didn't.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

BENSHAHN

Tuesday, June 22, 2004 5:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DarkSky:
at the beginning of 'Safe', with her and Simon as kids. She tells Simon that they got cut-off by Independents and can never return to their platoon. Sort of what happens later... Then she goes on to tell him that the Independents used dinosaurs. I wonder what that could mean. Maybe she refers to the rather low-tech planets many Independents seem to come from? Or old-fashioned values? Mal as a dinosaur in the high-tech Alliance world? Serenity a dinosaur? (I think in 'Serenity' it was mentioned that Firefly-class ships are not built anymore.)
And then there is the part about having to resort to cannibalism. Now this one is tricky. Does it refer to Reavers? In the Reaver thread someone suggested that Reavers are Alliance experiments like River. Or does she mean being criminals,'low-life vultures picking the flesh off the dead'?
Or maybe I'm just over-interpreting this scene...
Any thoughts anyone?

In Safe,the young River talks about a pretend Alliance group that is cut off by the Independents. The Alliance members resort to cannibalism.
In Bushwacked, when the survivor mutilates himself, the Alliance officer says he hasn't seen that kind of torture since the war and he says it with disgust. He is accusing Mal, who he knows to be a former Independent of doing it.
When you put these things together(along with Mal knowing more than most about Reavers and that Reavers attack outer worlds and settlers) it seems to point to the Reavers being former Alliance soldiers.
This idea of the Reavers and Mal’s possible knowledge or involvement in it fits nicely with Whedon's writing style; wanting to surprise the viewer with the unexpected, main characters with dark backgrounds, and the theme of redemption. When Mal says," Nothing worse than a monster thinks he's right with god", what if he knows this because he's also talking about himself?
As for the dinosaurs, it could refer to Serenity but I tend to think it refers to Mal, who after the war has lost his purpose, a "dinosaur" in the sense of someone who is no longer needed. If that's the case it brings up the possiblity of Wash's dinosaurs in "Serenity" as an allegory for Mal and Book(who seems to be a character that parallels Mal) as at the end of their fight one seems to deny god("No god") and the other appeals to god("Dear god in heaven"). This would imply that Book's part in the war had made him retreat to religion to deal with what he had done just as Mal had retreated from religion.

CALDEEN

Tuesday, June 22, 2004 5:55 AM

ummm.....I think this is some seriouse overanalization. Am prettt sure that River is just playing here. I mean dinosaurs chased me and my brother around all the time when we were kids.

I am not worried about the bullet with my name on it. Just the thousands marked "Occupant".

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

Tuesday, June 22, 2004 6:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DarkSky:
Quote:
Originally posted by TheFerryMan:

Dinosuars: Maybe that is a reference to Wash and "This Land." Or barring that, what are dinosaurs? Something big, scary, and exilirating. Could describe Serienty, their space travel, or just Jayne. For some reason, I wanna lean towards the Wash thing.

I had thought it might be Wash's dinosaurs, as well. But then I can't really see the connection. River is hardly ever on the bridge (actually, is she ever?) and she doesn't really have much interaction with Wash. Also, Wash is not really an Independent, at least he wasn't in the war.

It never shows her actually on the bridge, but in Bushwacked she is standing directly outside the main door.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
MAL: This is my scrap of nowhere. You go on and find your own.
SAFFRON: You can't just leave me here, on this
lifeless piece of crap moon...
MAL: Sure I can.
SAFFRON: I'll die.
MAL: Well, as a courtesy, you might start
getting busy on that, cause all this chatter ain't doin' me any kindness.

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