The Deep End...
POSTED BY: Iremisst
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 02:17
VIEWED: 5737
PAGE 1 of 3
I have several questions that have been rattling around for the last year or so about space, the human mind, and the nature of our actual 'verse- and since this is the ONLY kinda social site I visit ('cause people creep me the hell out!) here's where I'm askin'.
I'm askin' ya keep yer answers to somethin' less than a novel's length and please, no feedin' the Troll-ies which I'm sure will be along shortly!
First Question(s) of the Week-
Psychic Abilities? Do they really exist? Are you psychic or have you ever experienced anything? Is life just sooo mathmatically predictable that people guess what will probably happen and call themselves psychic? Do you have an innate fear of men with blue hands?
Welcome to The Deep End...
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First off, I just love the design of The Deep End's solarium. Perfect for looking at the stars while we contemplate the universe.
I have a twin sister(obviously not identical); I don't usually do the sales pitch(Mom: "They're twins!"). So, every once in a while, it appears we have some sort of psychic connection.
For example: just last week, I thought I might randomly put "Achoo tac tac"(C3PO says something like this in the Return of the Jedi when talking to the Ewoks) in the TAG box. Didn't actually get around to tagging it, but 3 hours later my sister texts that to me(only with a different spelling - like anybody knows how spell it - I can't even Google it!). FYI we live 50 miles apart.
I know next to nothing about brainwaves; frequency, range, intensity. But what if that "achoo tac tac" thing is stored in the same place in both brains. Or...oh hell, I'm outta my league.
Does anybody know ANYTHING about brainwaves? Preferably in Captain Dummy talk.
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Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay
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My whole post has been quoted by SIGMANUNKI. No need for duplicates.
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Look into hot and cold reading and you'll have your answer.
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I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
I went to college to become an astrophysicist. What I realized was that humans don't have near the infrastructure as far as their own senses to conceive of even a rough representation of how the universe works.
Then explain Quantum Mechanics. Or do you think that our senses are good enough to see that small? Seriously, that stuff is very very accurate and most certainly is a 'rough representation of how' that part of 'the universe works.' Similarly, for the other fields of Physics and the Hard Sciences in general.
Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
We now can use 3D modeling to express our theories about energies and matter, but dolphins have 3D modeling hard wired in their brains due to the sonar imaging they can do. They can overlay that image on the rest of the sensory input they share with humans.
Humans can learn echo location too. In fact, I recall running across a training seminar at one point. I can see, so I didn't look into it. But, it can be done.
Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
Just with their basic biology they can conceive of possibilities that we wouldn't
And you're basing that on what? Oh, that's right, nothing.
Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
because true spacial information is not tied to any of senses.
And? Do you think that the dolphins sonar isn't a sense for them? Do you think that sonar gives them any more accurate information that would be someone looking around? Seriously...
Btw, when the full sentence above is read, it's pretty much nonsense. I mean, you have X implies Y. But, X and Y are not even remotely related.
Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
We only perceive depth and distance when information arrives at our fixed location.
Sonar works the exact same way, except slower. Light, you know, traveling faster than sound.
Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
Scientists correct this lack with radio telemetry, sonar, lasers, etc, but they weren't born with a way to process that information so they set up constructs based on experimental data with its limited scope.
You're not making any sense. You start at, a human can't do sonar (which they actually can learn to do), and from there jump to, experiments are limited therefore so are the theories extrapolated from it. But, the fact of the matter is that any way one gets the data, through technology or biology, there are limitations to the data. One isn't necessarily better than the other (though tech tends to be more sensitive, at least once the tech has developed), and it doesn't really make a difference who interprets it. In fact, there's tonnes of stuff that we wouldn't have found out without tech and that's including things that our senses can sense. So, tech is kinda winning out on that front.
ASIDE: One can't say that in Science, theory comes from Experiment nor the other way around. Sometimes it happens one way, sometimes it happens the other and other times it's a combined effort. There is no one definitive way.
Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
What I'm sayin' is there's a whole lotta things about the universe that our puny little brains plugged into our virtually running blind bodies cannot possibly see.
And the same is true for the dolphins; for any other organism for that matter. Essentially, what you've stated here is quite meaningless.
Hey look! The Sun is bright!!!
Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
So, I became an artist and farmer. I draw and grow stuff.
Ya, I can tell. You know, from your (near) complete lack of understanding of how Science, etc works.
Please stick to what you're good at instead of spreading FUD and attempting to lend credence to said FUD by citing 'some college education.' You might have taken a couple classes, but a couple classes does not understanding make.
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I am on
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Hmm. Do you understand Quantum mechanics?
Let's start with the Heisenberg uncertainty principle?
How deep down the rabbit hole do you want to go?
What about the work of Schrödinger?
Or Feynman?
Do you follow Sir Michael Berry's premise that there is no quantum chaos?
Or do you think that quantum mechanics should extend into random matrix theory?
Do you believe that the results from traditional spectroscopy can ever produce an exact result or will we always have to live with approximation schemes like Freeman Dyson derived?
That stuff you refer to is not accurate at all. At its heart, quantum mechanics and the supporting mathematical structures are ways of approximating results.
Look. I wasn't looking for a pissing contest. I just was supporting the folks here with a personal philosophy. If you differ that's fine, but if you want to challenge my understanding Quantum mechanics, you better start throwing down some math and set in a context of mathematical belief systems- because that's what these great mathematicians are offering- belief systems that allow you to find patterns that most closely mimic the results of experimentation.
Once we get on the same base about Quantum mechanics we can move on to some of the other valid points you raised.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=86085840444
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Interesting Rah(don't know if you know this but Rah is a slang word some Brits use to describe a young snob-type person)lMaclaren
Are both you and your sister big Star wars fans? Had you had conversations about that particular phrase before? I like the idea about both of you storing the idea in the same place, it sounds logical enough. Then again maybe she was just trying to relate to you on that level. Also I like your line on another post about "they didn't teach me that in shop class". FYI- I am a gal and I took 3 years of shop class and loved it.
Also Sigmanunki and Mangolo, I have a ruler- would you all like to remove your brains so we can measure them and settle the deal now? 
Have some personal issues to resolve maybe?
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Heisenberg allows for an awful lot of things. So called psychic stuff can be possible though I don't have any idea exactly how the observer sees into events not yet occurring. Mostly I think we process a huge amount of information without our "conscious" mind aware of it. When it seems to be prescient we attribute it to psychic ability rather than accept the fact that we are simply not aware, or capable of being aware, of all the information we process.
Awareness can be a weird thing. Hubris can lead us down even weirder paths. IMHO
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I agree Free
I myself have had dozens of experiences where I have predicted something to happen and I believe there are parts of my brain that are way ahead of the rest of it... The hard part is actually listening to the little voice and then acting upon it to effect change, at least I find...
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I've been doing some woolgathering on the subject (as part of my writerly hobby of trying to come up with truly alien life forms that aren't just humans with rubber foreheads).
I definitely think telepathy is possible. The human body produces an electrical field (which could easily account for the "auras" some people perceive --it's been demonstrated by numerous sources that emotional states can affect biochemistry, which would logically affect this bioelectric field as well). Human brains also function through electrochemical means --it is theoretically possible to sense the pattern of electrical activity in another being's brain and "map" that (in a vague sense) to one's own brain (yes, each individual mass of neurons is as unique as a fingerprint, but the same general areas correspond).
It's possible that "telepathy" is actually several distinct phenomena just working in concert (bioelectrical sensitivity, observation, intuition, etc --perhaps Early, the Operative, and River are more alike than they realize).
As for perceiving auras as "visible" phenomena; that could just be a matter of our brains interpreting "raw" data in terms of our five senses --some might see auras around a person, others might detect the "scent of death," others might hear "whispering voices."
It's a known fact that some animals do have non-human senses (migratory animals can often sense magnetic fields, pit vipers have thermal vision, etc.)
(Also, sonar does give information that eyesight doesn't; soundwaves can pass through stuff that light can't [thus the principle behind ultrasound scans in hospitals] --cetaceans effectively have x-ray vision. They can see your skeleton inside your jelly-like innards and rubbery hide. Logically, a sufficiently trained dolphin might even be useful in detecting internal maladies like tumours, injuries, or surgical scars. Also, sonar is self-generated. Humans can't produce our own light [without technological aid].)
As for precognizance, we have to dip into quantum theory. Humans are four-dimensional (3D of space and 1D of time). Theorists posit that the universe may contain many more "quantum" dimensions that we can't perceive (think of a Flatlander [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland], having only length and width, trying to comprehend height).
If I touch my fingertip to "flatland," I create a circle (the perfect shape --I am clearly some sort of divine being or Ascended Master). If I touch multiple fingertips, I create multiple circles which share one mind ("I am Legion"). If I flatten my hand to the surface, these five entities suddenly seem to merge into one "amorphous" blob-like creature. If I were to push my arm through the surface, it would again become a circle (as my wrist submerges). If I raise my hand free, I have disappeared as though I never existed!
These are usually modelled as being dimensions of space, but why can't the same apply to time?
The ancient Greeks had two words for time: "kronos," which describes linear time (which can be measured by a chronometre), with which we are all familiar. They also had "kairos," which described time as "a pool of water," in which all moments were linked to all other moments.
Kronos, perhaps, is akin to "length" --a single dimensional orientation (past->present->future). If so, then what would the equivalent of "width" be? Perhaps alternate timelines (not "mirror universes," since these timelines would be part of our own universe). This would enable Schroedinger's model; the same particles could exist in multiple quantum states (the cat is both dead and alive, depending on one's perspective). Perhaps an outside observer (one occupying a different temporal dimension) would see both states, and laugh at us poor "timeliners" for our limited perceptions. (Of course, this also suggests that the opposite of kronos [past->present->future] is "antikronos" [past<-present<-future].)
Of course, what might this look like from a linear perspective? Being linear, we wouldn't perceive Them perc
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