Thank you, Barney Frank!
POSTED BY: Kwicko
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 22:08
VIEWED: 18943
PAGE 9 of 20
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Mind you, I'd say personally I nailed about 85-90% of em, often with proof in hand, and now that all this shit is finally coming out it's not so damn crazy any more is it now ?
How about a little refresher.
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I'm almost hesitant to enter this thread, given Digby's feelings about me, but what the hell, here it may be safe.
I came in this morning to find Bytemite's reasonable response to Digby's
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Some people who dislike Obama's policies aren't racists. In fact most are not racists .
But that's a lie you can't let go of. So , as you've said elsewhere about lies and the repeating of , keep it up.
I know it's a long ways back, but it's to and about me, so I'm responding. Thanx for clarifying, Byte:
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She said "a lot of them." Not all. She also pointed out some who are not racist, and later she realized her mistake, corrected herself, and said that some of THOSE are not ignorant.
Someone isn't lying if they believe what they're saying, and honestly, what she said really was not that offensive (or even wrong, because racists do exist in this country, and I imagine that they might take issue with Barack Obama being president). Nor was it personal to you.
Looks like another misunderstanding to me.
but no, it's no misunderstanding. It's a familiar tactic reflecting his feelings about me. I'm used to it.
What's neat, tho' is that I got left behind and this became a DEBATE, not ganging-up personal attack. I do love this place. And I do love to see how Digby is responding to it SOMEWHAT more as I know he's capable of, i.e., not just name-calling but actual debate. He IS smart, and is capable of holding his own with you guys; I hope the more you encourage him in that direction, the more he responds in kind. Opinionated, yes, and wrong a lot (in my opinion), yes, but capable of engaging, I believe.
That aside, as for the debate since it left there:
Sygnym
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Why I think a lot of people really ARE racist is that fact that the Republicna right can get so many people riled up over phantasms, shadows. "Birthers", Obama with a Hitler mustache and "Hitler medicine"... this is just a cover for their true feelings.
Excellent. You made the point for me. It's not, to me, that idiotic stuff is hurled at POTUS(es) every time by the other side, but that the things people have swallowed whole have been so extreme ad have appealed to the VISCERAL nature of people this time, not as much the POLITICAL nature, that indicates they're playing into something "else", as well as the fact that they're so enthusiastically embraced.
Dig:
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What's happening to Obama44 is simply the other side of an ugly coin that was pointed at Bush43 .
The same movement that many on the left paint as racist actually increased aid to Africa and had more minorities in government power positions than even America's "First Black President" Bill Clinton .
As a person who's spent near thirty years observing the "two solitudes" I can honestly say that racism is as prevalent on the left as it is on the right . It's just masked under a type condescension that seems to afflict leftist elitists.
Yes, the right has done the things you mentioned, tho' I wouldn't contrast them with the left, as I think it can be said of both sides, but of course, there are good intentions on both sides through history. And yes, there's racism on both sides, in all societies, but what's happening now seems to me a more blatant appeal to the inherent racism in this country. For one thing, all the polls and facts show the biggest atni-Obama mentality is in the South by FAR, a part of our country so connected to racism that it must make those who AREN'T down there squirm sometimes. If one breaks Obama's approval rating, and about anything else having to do with him, into areas of the country, the numbers change dramatically.
There certainly is condescension masking reverse-racism (as bad as racism in some ways) on the left, but in my opinion, the results of overt racism are more prevalent on the right and more destructive by far. I'll take good-faith efforts, despite containing condescension, over overt hatred any day. And you might want to drop the "leftist elitists" thing--just a suggestion--but I do
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It gets in the way of serious debate .
( as does the silly birth certificate , "sekrit Muslim" crap propagated by some far out righties )
*SOME*? In places, including ENTIRE STATES here in America, it's not SOME "far out righties", it's actually THE VAST MAJORITY of them. North Carolina, for instance. A poll week before last asked self-identified registered Republicans if they believe Obama as an American citizen. A whopping SEVENTY-TWO PERCENT answered "No" or "Don't know". That's not "SOME" righties. That's a scary amount of them.
Of course, it should also be noted that 12% of them didn't think Hawaii was a state...
Those "some far out righties" you mentioned include people like Sarah Palin, Tom Delay, Chuck Grassley, Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh (a confirmed longtime drug addict), Glenn Beck (whose mother and brother committed suicide just to get the hell away from him), and countless others. All of them have jumped on either the "birther" train or the "death panels" train, or BOTH, and they're all equally bonkers. Are those the people you really want running the United States? Hell, are these even the people you want arguing your case or framing the "debate"?
Mike
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Quote:
Originally posted by AdmiralDigby:
He wrote *two* books about himself before he was forty-five .
Seriously .
I think you're jealous, because from what I've seen lately, most "conservatives" in this country look down on you if you've READ two books before you're forty-five. According to them, it makes you one o' them "leftist elites" they like to bag on so much.
Ruh-roh - Looks like Rudy Giuliani wrote a book about himself. Guess that disqualifies him from running.
John McCain has written FIVE books about himself. So are you mad that Obama has written so many books about himself, or so few?
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Perhaps it was more to do with branding a nascent politician .
So is it your contention that we should disqualify anyone from the Presidency who's ever written a book? Certainly after the last eight years, we should disqualify anyone who's never read one...
Mike
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Would you like me to dig up some old threads regarding the former President? How about the "Russia is really big" thread?
Oh, could you? Be a dear and please go dig those up.
Mike
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Mind you, I'd say personally I nailed about 85-90% of em, often with proof in hand, and now that all this shit is finally coming out it's not so damn crazy any more is it now ?
How about a little refresher.
Sure. It's all right there at the bottom of the RWED thread page, under a link that says "Read threads that have been archived."
Go see what you can find while you're looking up "Bush is silly" threads. Run, boy - FETCH!
Who knows? Maybe you'll run across a "real" Obama birth certificate from Kenya. Or Canada. Or Australia. Or Zaire. Or Nigeria. Or Indonesia.
Mike
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Now, as for the REAL stuff Obama has really blown it on, where do I start?
Wire taps, indefinite detention, Gitmo, still being in Iraq, still being in Afghanistan, now targeting people in Pakistan, not addressing the problems on our own borders, not being more forceful in his dealings with healthcare reform (seriously, we don't NEED any Republican support for this; fuck "bipartisanship".)
Seriously. Give me a worthy opponent in 2012, and my vote's up for grabs. And when I say "worthy", I don't mean John McCain or Dick Cheney or Sarah "I Quit!" Palin. Give me somebody REAL. Give me an actual fiscal conservative, not just someone who says he is and then more than doubles the debt and takes us from a budget surplus to the largest deficits ever seen by any nation on Earth.
Who else have you got?
Mike
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"However, in defense of the anti-Bushies, our criticism were not JUST about silly stuff. Most of it was pretty damn serious. Treasonous, in fact. Nobody wants to see Bush tried for wearing silly clothes, but many of us would like to see him tried for treason."
Hello,
I'd like to chime in here somewhat in Signy's favor. I'm not quite convinced about the treason aspect of Bush's crimes. It may be so.
But I am convinced that the man tore civil liberties to shreds, endorsed torture (a rose by any other name), and spied on Americans.
I am mad at Obama, because he voted or elected not to pursue these crimes.
But you better believe I'm mad at Bush first, for perpetrating them originally.
I don't like arguments where someone points out something Obama has done wrong, and then it is defended by saying, "But look at what Bush did!" As though that absolves the guy of guilt, just because there may have been a bigger jackass preceding him. As though it was a defense in court to say, "Hey, sure, I murdered five people, but that guy murdered ten!" Bull.
However, I share the frustration of Obama defenders on one point. How is it possible for some people to point and jeer and clamor at this president, while they not only remained silent on the previous president- but actively endorsed his B.S.?!
People don't become right or wrong depending on their political affiliation. They become right and wrong because of the things they do and the things they fail to do. There's only one team here, and it ain't blue or red. We should all collectively get our mad on each and every time some jackass does something stupid. Getting mad only when the jackass is sporting an unfavorable team jersey is foolish.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Sure. It's all right there at the bottom of the RWED thread page, under a link that says "Read threads that have been archived."
Go see what you can find while you're looking up "Bush is silly" threads. Run, boy - FETCH!
Gee, Frem, how about you find what I was asking about and I will respond in turn. How does that sound, Frem?
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Quote:It sounds like pearls before swine, BDN. If you can't remember what Frem (and I, Rue, HK, Gino, Succotash, and others) have been pointing at for the last- oh five-six years- what should make me think you're gonna bother to think about it THIS time? Not bloody likely.
How does that sound, Frem?
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