The intended ethnicity of the Tams?

POSTED BY: deigaman
UPDATED: Thursday, July 30, 2009 00:49
VIEWED: 9100
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DEIGAMAN

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 5:05 AM

I just discovered the awesomeness of both Firefly and Serenity not too long ago. One thing that interested me was the mash-up of both Western and Eastern culture. As an American-born Asian, this is something that kinda struck a chord with me.

One thing that kept nagging at my head, though, was the lack of Asian main characters. I know, I know, you have to find the right actor for the right part, yadda yadda yadda. That's fine, I won't beat a dead horse. But I was wondering if anyone knew what the INTENDED ethnicity of the Tams were when Joss was developing the story? According to Wikipedia, Kaylee was originally intended to be Asian, hence the modern-Eastern style of clothing she usually sports. But I found nothing about Simon and River who, for one, have a Chinese last name, two, are both incredibly smart (cough cough) and, let's be frank, exist in a universe where there are a LOT of Asian-descended people, all walking around in the background.

Is there a comment somewhere I missed? Maybe in Whedon commentary? Both Sean Maher and Summer Glau have vaguely Asian features (especially Summer... my friend was confused when I complained about the lack of Asians in Firefly, and pointed to River as an example of the contrary)..

Maybe there was some mixing in the Tam family tree?

AGENTROUKA

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 7:39 AM

I think there was some mixing in the family trees of many, many people in the 'verse.

Even today, many people have a fairly mixed ancestry. The more mobile we become, the greater our pool of partners to choose from, the more likely will people from different backgrounds get together to have children.

And the show is 500 years in the future, many decades of which were spent on big transport ships carrying humanity toward the new solar system. As far as I'm concerned, everyone on the show is a "mutt" of some sort.

I don't think Summer was specifically chosen for her ambiguious looks, but they certainly didn't hurt in playing up that multi-mix aspect of the show.

Also, that lack of Asians thing becomes weirder and weirder the more I think about it. Did Joss ever say anything about it?

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 9:21 AM

The "lack of Asians" thing is something I've thought about, since it didn't for some reason strike me as odd, despite the statistical probabilities.

In our current time, I often find, and am still quite amazed at the "genetic purity" or same-race coupling of many asians. Not that some asiaqns don't mate with non-asians, but when with others asians, it seems predominantly same-race (or sub-race, fairly defined as by country or region).
I do understand there is much historical resentment between Japanese and Koreans, Viets, Thais, Chinese, etc - largely due to the wars amongst the peoples of the Far East while they were largely secluded from the Mid-east and Yurp. But they seem to hold a multi-generational grudge longer than some.

Perhaps there is some arrogance among asians in the future, restraining them from diluting their genetic pool with mongols and occidentals and others of lower IQ.

Perhaps some factors like this cause Serenity to have no asaians.not because asians are not included, but because asians have not included others.

Remember, the 2 countries which are represented are China on Sihnon, and the "melting pot of immigrants" America on Londonium for everybody else.

I had assumed Inara was supposed to be of asian influence, being from Sihnon and RCs being based upon geishas.
Try thinking about this from the viewpoint of an asian currently in China, rather than anybody living anywhere outside SE Asia. Would the proud Chinese want to lower themselves to colluding with scoundrels, thieves, defeated browncoats like those on Serenity?

On the other hand, if there is intermixing 500 years from now, perhaps the asian appearance characteristics are not very strong anymore.
Remember how many centuries ago the Far East was "discovered" and regular trade routes were established for spices and silks?
Even in the last half century, many asians have difficulty escaping their homelands. Today many countries know what centuries of ethnic mixing of whites, hispanics, blacks, Indians, can produce in terms of appearance, but we have not yet had many centuries of widespread intermixing with asians to know what the result will look like.

NCBROWNCOAT

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 1:45 PM

If you live around a military base or any big city there are lots of mixed race people.

One of my good friends and an excellent Browncoat is is Chinese/American (mainly Irish) due thanks the US Marine Corps and she is married to another mainly Irish American. Her two children are lovely but still show softened Asian features despite being two generations away.

Other prominent Asian/Caucasians are Ann Curry (Chinese) of the NBC Today Show and Jon Gosslin (Korean).

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

WHITESILENCE

Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:34 AM

I'm Asian American too, first generation Chinese to be specific and yes, this lack of major Asian characters bothers me a lot. In fact the only one with a speaking part is a prostitute in Heart of Gold.

Afraid I can't actually help you with the Tam's ethnicity. Sorry.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, July 23, 2009 9:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
If you live around a military base or any big city there are lots of mixed race people.

One of my good friends and an excellent Browncoat is is Chinese/American (mainly Irish) due thanks the US Marine Corps and she is married to another mainly Irish American. Her two children are lovely but still show softened Asian features despite being two generations away.

I understand what you are saying, but this does not in any way address what I'm saying. We're contemplating the results of 500 years of WIDESPREAD racial intermixing, about 15-25 generations worth. That has not happened yet for us to see.

Yes, I've been in the Marine Corps, and I've been in large cities, but these aren't pertinent to my point.

ZAROVE

Thursday, July 23, 2009 8:31 PM

WELL, specifically regarding th Tams, it may just be that they have some Asian Ancestry, but its three or four generations removed.

Suppose Mr. Yu Tam married a white woman, named Rachel Wellington. Their Children are of course Tams. Now if their son, Peter Tam, marries another mixed Asian/white woman, but whose Grandfather was a Veit, this means that the children are more white than Asian.

By the third or fourth generation of marrying mainly whites or other mixed races, we get our Tams, and they appear mostly white.

They still have Asian Ancestry though.

Of course this doesn't even factor in adoption as a possibility.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, July 24, 2009 6:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ZAROVE:
WELL, specifically regarding th Tams, it may just be that they have some Asian Ancestry, but its three or four generations removed.

Suppose Mr. Yu Tam married a white woman, named Rachel Wellington. Their Children are of course Tams. Now if their son, Peter Tam, marries another mixed Asian/white woman, but whose Grandfather was a Veit, this means that the children are more white than Asian.

By the third or fourth generation of marrying mainly whites or other mixed races, we get our Tams, and they appear mostly white.

They still have Asian Ancestry though.

Not sure if I understand.
Most "whites" or at least non-asians, particularly those of the "American" contingent of the exodus, are from mixed genetic sourcees. Are you saying one of these "mutts" will more greately dilute the asian features? That a more "pure bred" asian would not dominate the genetic material of the "mutts"? Two half-asian parents would produce a less-than-half asian offspring?
Is that what you're saying?

AGENTROUKA

Friday, July 24, 2009 7:00 AM

JSF,

but even if such a thing as a parallel/separate Asian society existed, that chooses to confine itself to Sihnon and not intermix with others... that still wouldn't explain the discrepancy of having lots and lots of non-speaking, clearly Asian background characters in the same low-level places where Mal and all the speaking non-Asian roles hang out.

Why wouldn't some of these poor Asians have been Independents, why couldn't they be part of Mal's crew or his business associates? And if the divide ran so deep, that even the poor kept themselves strictly seggregated along heritage lines, why wouldn't it have been mentioned on the show?

Honestly, I think there is no way to rationalize the weirdness of the lack of Asian speaking roles on the show.

The only reason people often ignore it is that the image of a space western, where Asians aren't necessarily expected to feature prominently, trumps the cultural implications of the show's premise, which would be... some Asians featuring prominently!

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, July 24, 2009 7:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
JSF,

but even if such a thing as a parallel/separate Asian society existed, that chooses to confine itself to Sihnon and not intermix with others... that still wouldn't explain the discrepancy of having lots and lots of non-speaking, clearly Asian background characters in the same low-level places where Mal and all the speaking non-Asian roles hang out.

Why wouldn't some of these poor Asians have been Independents, why couldn't they be part of Mal's crew or his business associates? And if the divide ran so deep, that even the poor kept themselves strictly seggregated along heritage lines, why wouldn't it have been mentioned on the show?

Honestly, I think there is no way to rationalize the weirdness of the lack of Asian speaking roles on the show.

The only reason people often ignore it is that the image of a space western, where Asians aren't necessarily expected to feature prominently, trumps the cultural implications of the show's premise, which would be... some Asians featuring prominently!

You mean like the Zen Western with asian David Carradine (Kung Fu)?

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