The Other Firefly Movie?

POSTED BY: illbeinmybunk
UPDATED: Thursday, July 22, 2004 21:59
VIEWED: 11195
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WALTERPIPP

Friday, June 11, 2004 6:40 AM

I confess to not knowing enough about the American Civil War to argue with you. You're probably correct in your assessment. The information I based my comment on came from:

http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/firefly.html

QUICKSAND

Friday, June 11, 2004 6:43 AM

I don't know where you read that Firefly has anything to do with the Civil War, but I could not disagree more.

The Civil War pitted countryman against countryman, in a 4 year battle in the most grueling of conditions, over the right to own slaves. The slave-holders lost. I think we can all agree this was a good thing.

The Battle for Serenity Valley, and the war it was a part of, seemed to be a battle of the poor vs. the rich, the United-Under-One-Rule vs. We Get To Make Our Own Laws. The conditions, being in the distant future, were quite lovely. No slaves.

Whereas the Southern states were once part of the U.S. before they seceded (and were smacked into returning), I think the parallel here would be the city you leave near annexing the shopping mall near your house, just so they could collect the extra taxes. You, and your fellow Browncoats, are on the side that tells the city to keep their damn mits off your part of this 'Verse.

And a lot fewer cannons.

SERGEANTX

Friday, June 11, 2004 8:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Quicksand:
I don't know where you read that Firefly has anything to do with the Civil War, but I could not disagree more....

Firefly has everything to do with what happens to people who try to revolt and fail. And it follows very closely the plight of a lot of the people who fought for the south and lost. Many of them drifted to the western frontier and took up careers of questionable legality, preferring that to living under the thumb of the Alliance, er,, I mean the North.

Joss has made it clear he was inspired to create Firefly when reading Killer Angels, a book about Gettysburg. That doesn't mean its an allegory. Firefly is its own story, but its clear from the trappings and vernacular borrowed for the show that we're supposed to be reminded of the south and the western frontier of America after the Civil War.

This brings up something else which I see on here a lot that I think is misguided. There's been a fair amount of discussion and even some entertaining fanfic based on the idea that the future of Malcolm Reynolds and crew might involve some kind of rekindling of the war.

I don't think anything is less likely. It goes against nearly every theme the show follows. The story is about Mal, and the rest of them for that matter, trying to figure out how to deal with life when things don't turn out the way you think they should. It's not about fighting the good fight against the oppressive forces of darkness. That's the difference between Star Wars and Firefly. Let Star Wars tell the grand sagas of heroism in battle, Firefly is about heroism of a different sort.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

BROWNCOAT1

Friday, June 11, 2004 1:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rklenseth:
Quote:
Originally posted by WalterPipp:
Not that this makes much difference, but I read that Firefly parallels the American Civil War, whereas this other movie, "2176," parallels the American Revolutionary War. For example, the Battle of Serenity Valley is supposed to parallel the Battle of Gettysburg.

Regardless, what i feel is the biggest draw of Firefly is its late 19th Century, Old American West atmosphere. A space opera loosely based on the American Revolutionary War may not have this same ambiance.

BTW, I think I'm one of the five people in North America who liked Special Unit 2. I'm not completely averse to a new series like it.

Actually, I'd say that the Battle of Serenity Valley parallels the Battle of Petersburg fought at the closing months of the American Civil War. Yeah, the history textbooks in school will say the turning point was at Gettysburg but that is still debated by scholars of the Civil War today.

But I personally think that Serenity Valley seems more like a Petersburg than Gettysburg. Both had trench warfare. From what I could tell Serenity Valley was in between something the Alliance wanted to get to. Petersburg was in the way of the North getting to Richmond. Serenity Valley seemed to have lasted for months. Petersburg lasted for months of siege like warfare. So I see more similiarities in Petersburg rather than Gettysburg.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

I could not agree more Rklenseth. To me the Battle of Serenity Valley more closely resemble the Siege of Petersburg than the Battle of Gettysburg. As you pointed out, Petersburg was under siege and was the first use of trench warfare. To me this makes it more of a parallel to Serenity Valley.

Though Firefly's Battle of Serenity Valley seems to mirror the War Between the States Battle of Gettysburg as the "pivotal" battle for that particular conflict, the comparison, in my opinion, ends there.

WalterPipp wrote:

Quote:
BTW, I think I'm one of the five people in North America who liked Special Unit 2. I'm not completely averse to a new series like it.

You were not the only one my friend. I really liked that show. It was campy, but fun nonetheless.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

MANTICHORUS

Friday, June 11, 2004 1:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Gunhand:
The supernatural thing reminds me a little of Ultraviolet. I wish HBO would pick that up and run with it, there just wasn't enough of it. Sorta like something else we all know and love.

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"

Good to find another Ultraviolet fan on site.

-------------------------------------------
"BADGER: You think you're better than other people.
MAL: Just the ones I'm better than."
-------------------------------------
"MAL: Gotta say, doctor, your talent for alienatin' folk is near miraculous.
SIMON: Yes, I'm very proud."

SILVERCROSS

Monday, June 14, 2004 12:37 PM

Personally I reckon I'd rather pay to watch Serenity twice at the cinema than go see the other (a bit too similar) film. (JW will have the better script anyway....)

Jayne: "Pain is scary" (serenity)

NEWSCAPER

Monday, June 28, 2004 8:09 AM

I don't think a successful rebellion, refighting the last war with Independents winning is in the cards ... too much simplistic been there, done that.

What WOULD be very interesting is some other former browncoats trying to stir something up again and trying to convince/lure/trick Mal & co. into helping -- and Mal being conflicted, realizing (perhaps latter rather than sooner) all it would do is get people killed to no good end and only result in greater oppression by the Alliance. I think he hates the Aliiance, but realizes that they are *not* quite Nazi-class.

A great SF novel that explores this theme is When Heaven Fell by William Barton, in which a former soldier who fought for Earth and is now a reluctant mercenary for its successful conquerors, must decide whether or not to help a new human rebellion that he knows cannot win.

The other SF trope we will never see in Firefly is aliens. Goes too much against the grain of the show -- realistic humanity. That said, like the alternate take on rebels I discuss above, I think this could still be mined. In a TV series format, I think some sort of hijinks -- or bad stuff -- could be developed out of a struggle over a hot cargo that turned out to be a *real* alien artifact, just millions of years old so no chance of live aliens. Or it could just be a convincing fraud.

MAUGWAI

Wednesday, July 7, 2004 11:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Quicksand:
I don't know where you read that Firefly has anything to do with the Civil War, but I could not disagree more.

The Civil War pitted countryman against countryman, in a 4 year battle in the most grueling of conditions, over the right to own slaves. The slave-holders lost. I think we can all agree this was a good thing.

The Battle for Serenity Valley, and the war it was a part of, seemed to be a battle of the poor vs. the rich, the United-Under-One-Rule vs. We Get To Make Our Own Laws. The conditions, being in the distant future, were quite lovely. No slaves.

Whereas the Southern states were once part of the U.S. before they seceded (and were smacked into returning), I think the parallel here would be the city you leave near annexing the shopping mall near your house, just so they could collect the extra taxes. You, and your fellow Browncoats, are on the side that tells the city to keep their damn mits off your part of this 'Verse.

And a lot fewer cannons.

Dude, remember there are Southerners on this site. Not that I'm advocating the second rise of the Confederacy or anything, and I certainly don't fly the Confederate flag, but there's more to the story than slavery. It's an issue, but not the only one. I don't really want to argue about it because that's an old argument, but I just wanted to point out that there are more issues at hand than just slavery. So if you look at some of the other issues, they may have more bearing on the Firefly storyline.

Independent states' rights, control over crop prices, one group having more power than another, peer pressure - all these are also causes of the Civil War. Since we don't know about exactly what caused the war in Firefly, all these are also possible issues.

Also, in "Shindig" Mal talks to a slave trader. So I wouldn't completely discount slavery either.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

THUNDAR

Thursday, July 8, 2004 12:15 AM

The Civil was was NOT fought for the sole reason of Slavery. I think this article explains things quite nicely. http://ngeorgia.com/history/why.html

QUICKSAND

Thursday, July 8, 2004 12:34 AM

Doesn't matter that Mal talked to a slave trader; the arguement isn't, Does Slavery Exist (in the Firefly universe), the issue is, What Was the War About?

The Civil War analogy made above was just silly, and that's all I was pointing out. If anything, it's closer to the American Revolution, where the states wanted to make their own laws and not be taxed into oblivion. Remember the references on "Firefly" about the Alliance dropping settlers on a planet with just a few blankets and some horses? That's all the British government did... remember, these were citizens who had never farmed in their lives, and wore tights and powdered wigs all day.

Britain taxed the colonies, Britain said you MUST open your home to any British soldier who needs a place to stay. The colonists had NO say in the British government.

The South had plenty of say in Washington. I reckon it was about half. They just wouldn't back down (as they refused to back down in 1776), because their entire economy was based on slave labor.

So maybe it wasn't about slavery. But the American Revolution was about freedom, definitely. The Civil War, then, was just all about greed.

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