Honduras Defends Its Democracy!

POSTED BY: Skywalken
UPDATED: Sunday, July 5, 2009 04:15
VIEWED: 13327
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SIGNYM

Friday, July 3, 2009 3:42 AM

Skywalken, I want to address your POV specifically. In fact, I wanted to specifically address your first post, but it required far more time than I could have devoted to it. If I have time, I'll go back to it.

Quote:
The Honduran coup is a reaction to Chávez's rule by the mob.

"The mob"? What is "the mob"? People who demonstrate to show their unhappiness with the system? People who feel "the system", "the law" and "the Constitution" don't represent their interests? People who think "the system" is rigged against them? Who demand extra-judicial procedures? Who throw rocks and bottles at the police? Who demand to be heard?

People like the Iranian opposition?

Isn't it amazing how one man's "mob" is another man's "freedom fighters"? So let me re-cast the WSJ article in a different light:

Quote:
As military "coups" go, the one this weekend in Iran was strangely, well, democratic. The military didn't oust Presidential candidate Moussavi on its own but instead followed an order of the Supreme Ruler and Revolutionary Guard. It also quickly protected the putative President Ahmadinejad and tore down the voting booths erected by Moussavi, confiscated ballots and arrested anyone who appeared to be an opposition poll-worker. But the legislature and legal authorities all remain intact.

We mention these not so small details because they are being overlooked as the world, including the U.S. President, denounces Iran in a way that it never has, say, Honduras. President Obama is joining the U.N., the UK, and other model democrats in demanding that Mr. Moussavi be allowed to return from exile and that the extra-legal vote be allowed. Maybe it's time to sort the real democrats from the phony Mideast ones.

The situation is messy, and we think the Iranians would have been smarter -- and better off -- not sending Mr. Moussavi into exile at dawn. Mr. Moussavi was pressing ahead with a nonbinding referendum to validate the Iranian vote. The ayatollah and Iranian Supreme Court declared the referendum illegal and warned he'd be prosecuted if he followed through. Mr. Moussavi persisted, even leading a violent mob last week to seize and distribute ballots. However, the proper constitutional route was to indict Mr. Moussavi and then arrest him for violating the law.

Doesn't quite play the same, does it?

It seems to me that the right-wing cries out for "the rule of law" when it benefits them and ignores it when it doesn't.

To me, the real test is what the people want. After all, what is the downside of holding a non-binding referendum.. other than finding out what the people want???? A government which is afraid of transparency is a government which is afraid of the people it supposedly serves.

SIGNYM

Friday, July 3, 2009 6:37 PM

Unlike the wall-to-wall coverage of Iran, you won't hear much about this in American press.

Quote:
TEGUCIGALPA, July 2 (Xinhua) -- Rival rallies for and against Honduras' post-coup government continued into their fifth day on Thursday, with at least three cities seeing large gatherings, local media reported.
Juan Barahona, leader of the United Workers Front (FUT), led marches backing Manuel Zelaya, the nation's president who was seized from his bed by hooded and heavily-armed soldiers on Sunday, and forced to board a plane to Costa Rica. The FUT has joined with other Zelaya sympathizers to create the People's Resistance Front.
Pro-Zelaya protests were seen in northern city San Pedro Sula and in the capital, Tegucigalpa. At least two pro-Zelaya demonstrators have been killed, with at least 60 others injured and over 270 arrested...
Supporters of Roberto Micheletti, who was sworn in as president just hours after Zelaya was ousted and forced into exile, have created the Civic Democratic Unit, which staged a sit-in in the capital on Tuesday, rallied in southern city Choluteca on Wednesday and is holding rallies in San Pedro Sula on Thursday.
Zelaya has said he will return to Honduras, accompanied by Jose Miguel Insulza, the secretary-general of the Organization of American States, and regional heads of state. The Organization of American States has adopted a resolution demanding that Zelaya be reinstated. The coup has been widely condemned by nations and multilateral bodies across the world.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-07/03/content_11643084.htm

Quote:
Demonstrations continued Thursday, including a march by thousands of Zelaya's supporters through downtown Tegucigalpa that started at the army headquarters. They painted slogans on scores of buildings, including a play on Micheletti's name, "Pinocheletti," that compares him to Augusto Pinochet, the leader of Chile's 1973 coup. At a pro-Zelaya march in Honduras' second city, San Pedro Sula, dozens of people were reported arrested.
Honduras for decades was practically a client state of the U.S. But Washington was unable to prevent this crisis and has not been able to resolve it. After Zelaya was seized, his wife, Xiomara Castro, and their youngest son took refuge at the home of the U.S. ambassador, where they remain. The U.S. Embassy has a no-contact policy with the Micheletti faction.
Honduras' de facto leaders have imposed a curfew on the country and suspended some civil rights. Micheletti defended those steps Thursday, saying they have fostered a decline in the crime rate. "You see, it's a good thing that the army and police are in the streets," he said. "It has brought down crime." He and other members of his provisional government refuse to describe the president's ouster as a coup, saying Zelaya was violating the constitution.
Martha Lorena Alvarado de Castro, sworn in Thursday as deputy foreign minister, said she and her allies were "absolutely surprised" by the international condemnation. "I think there is little understanding of our reality," she said in an interview in the courtyard of the presidential palace. "What's happening in Honduras now {curfew, loss of civil rights, demonstration???} is fabulous"

www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-honduras3-2009jul03,0,744
2571.story
Oy!

SKYWALKEN

Friday, July 3, 2009 7:35 PM

The people of Honduras are not only standing up to the marxist Zelaya, there also standing up to the marxist Obama and his lapdog that is the American mainstream media.

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/07/honduran-democracy-protester
s-lash-out.html

KWICKO

Friday, July 3, 2009 9:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:
The people of Honduras are not only standing up to the marxist Zelaya, there also standing up to the marxist Obama and his lapdog that is the American mainstream media.

Well... except for the ones who are standing up FOR Zelaya, that is...

SIGNYM

Friday, July 3, 2009 9:57 PM

So we have competing demonstrations, ONE side of which is getting killed, beaten and jailed and the OTHER side is getting a free pass.

But isn't the BEST way to find out what the people want by holding a referendum???? And isn't that what Zelaya wanted? Not exactly the mark of a dictator, is it?

Like I said- what's the downside of holding a referendum? Wouldn't YOU want to see a referendum in Iran? And if so- what's the difference between one situation and th other?

KWICKO

Friday, July 3, 2009 10:40 PM

Yup, and now it seems cell-phone videos are popping up showing soldiers shooting at buses full of pro-Zelaya protesters. Sounds VERRRRRRYYYYY democratic, that. Maybe someone told the military to give these people some ballots, but what they HEARD was "bullets"...

GINOBIFFARONI

Friday, July 3, 2009 10:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So we have competing demonstrations, ONE side of which is getting killed, beaten and jailed and the OTHER side is getting a free pass.

But isn't the BEST way to find out what the people want by holding a referendum???? And isn't that what Zelaya wanted? Not exactly the mark of a dictator, is it?

Like I said- what's the downside of holding a referendum? Wouldn't YOU want to see a referendum in Iran? And if so- what's the difference between one situation and th other?

This is quite true, alot of the time the loudest protest may not exactly represent the majority....

And what about outside the citys

a referendum is the only way to go

" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

GEEZER

Friday, July 3, 2009 10:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
But isn't the BEST way to find out what the people want by holding a referendum????

Not if the only way to legally hold a referendum is at the behest of the Congress and the Congress doesn't order it. Also not if the opposition figured it would be rigged and decided not to participate. You might end up like the elections in Iran, where some districts had a turnout over 100%.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

KWICKO

Friday, July 3, 2009 11:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
But isn't the BEST way to find out what the people want by holding a referendum????

Not if the only way to legally hold a referendum is at the behest of the Congress and the Congress doesn't order it. Also not if the opposition figured it would be rigged and decided not to participate. You might end up like the elections in Iran, where some districts had a turnout over 100%.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Hell, some districts had turnouts of over 140%! A hundred and forty percent of the people who lived in that district voted. If we had half that much turnout in a presidential election, we'd be happy.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

SIGNYM

Saturday, July 4, 2009 1:39 AM

Quote:
Not if the only way to legally hold a referendum is at the behest of the Congress and the Congress doesn't order it.

So, since the Iranian Supreme Leader said that vote was OK and refused a re-vote that's fine with you too.

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